Drill bits

[Chris Needham]

Slightly sidestepping my original question, last year i was working on an old property and when drilling into walls, my masonry bit occasionally slipped as it naturally found the weak spot in the old brickwork so the hole ended up a few mm off target. I was able to resolve the issue by using a wooden plug so no drama in the end. I then borrowed a friend‘s SDS drill for the remaining work.

No doubt you have more experience then I in such matters, would you agree that an SDS drill was my best option for my predicament at the time?

And one other if I may, is there a failsafe way to size match rawl plugs to bit sizes? Thanks again.

 

[RobinBHM]

Slightly sidestepping my original question, last year i was working on an old property and when drilling into walls, my masonry bit occasionally slipped as it naturally found the weak spot in the old brickwork so the hole ended up a few mm off target. I was able to resolve the issue by using a wooden plug so no drama in the end. I then borrowed a friend‘s SDS drill for the remaining work.

No doubt you have more experience then I in such matters, would you agree that an SDS drill was my best option for my predicament at the time?

And one other if I may, is there a failsafe way to size match rawl plugs to bit sizes? Thanks again.

The solution is Dewalt extreme masonry bits.

if you want an accurate size and position of hole, start with a 3mm and work up. Withdraw frequently to remove dust.

accuracy is limited by the nature of how masonry bits work - they smash the material rather than cut, so they are never going to be awfully accurate.

 

[mikej460]

Screws Explained from handycrowd.com

other charts are available

 

[JobandKnock]

...you mentioned countersink drills. I nearly always countersink holes to hide screw heads but do this with a separate countersink bit. I’ve not used the bits you mention so it might be worth me checking out.

I work in construction where we simply don't have the time spend using two drill bits. A combined drill/countersink for someone like me is therefore a far better bet, especially as the Trend Snappy range has matching pug cutters (for use on hardwood pelleting jobs). I've tried various cheap ones, I've tried the deWalt and Disston ones, but I've always ended up back with the Snappy ones. I'm on my second full set, but I have replaced one or two individual ones over the years. more because they get "borrowed" and not returned or the fall out of my trouser pockets than anything else. To date I've only snapped one, unlike the deWalts and others

... is there a failsafe way to size match rawl plugs to bit sizes? Thanks again.

Red Rawlplugs need a 5.5mm hole, brown ones a 7mm hole. The brown plugs work with best with 4.5, 5 and 6mm screws because you can drill and countersink first, offer the material into position and drill through the existing hole, tap the plug through, then tap the screw through part way before tightening with a screwdriver. I generally use 5mm plugs for skirtings, although that is mainly for pelleted hardwood - softwoods are often just "glued" and pinned to the wall or on listeds nailed/pinned to tapered plugs or vary rarely affixed to timber grounds, Simple.

Fischer for some unearthly reason make an 8mm brown plug where this technique only works with 6mm screws - all smaller screws have heads too small to hold the timber. Which is one reason I dislike them

 

[Chris Needham]

Like Doug I have a good set of brad points but for work like skirting I use jobber drills and plugs. Have a look at these from SabreCut
11pcs Countersink Zippy Set - SCRKZ1 | SabreCut

amateur question here - So with the counter sink bits you and JobandKnock mention, do the actual drill bits fit inside the countersink bit or are they the same ‘tool’ please? Or do you get several counter sink bits and several twist drill bits that you mix and match, and if/when the twist drill breaks, you simply replace it? If they are separate parts, can you use an HSS or a Brad point with the countersink ?

 

[mikej460]

amateur question here - So with the counter sink bits you and JobandKnock mention, do the actual drill bits fit inside the countersink bit or are they the same ‘tool’ please? Or do you get several counter sink bits and several twist drill bits that you mix and match, and if/when the twist drill breaks, you simply replace it? If they are separate parts, can you use an HSS or a Brad point with the countersink ?

Yes the actual drill bits fit inside the countersink bit so when the twist drill breaks, you simply replace it and yes you can fit both types - you are only limited on drill bit size. You buy the countersink bit already fitted with a drill but they can be replaced.

 

[JobandKnock]

I generally don't bother with buying Trend's replacement bits - long HSS twist drills such as Heller can be bought really cheaply in tens and work as well (as long as you have the right size). In general for skirtings the #12 size or 4mm metric work best, If you are doing a lot of bigger 6mm screws then the 5mm metric size is a better choice, I find, No need to buy a full set, though. For other purposes (such as drilling MDF or MFC in volume) Trend also offer (more expensive) TCT drill/countersinks



as well as drill/countersinks with inbuilt depth stops (TCT and a lot more expensive). The TCT drill/countersinks are a bit fragile for general construction, I find, but are good for bench work where they are less likely to be abused

 

[Chris Needham]

Thanks very much

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Remember that most brad-point bits are hand-ground in Third World countries by lowly-paid (possibly child) labour.

No surprises there.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Slightly sidestepping my original question, last year i was working on an old property and when drilling into walls, my masonry bit occasionally slipped as it naturally found the weak spot in the old brickwork so the hole ended up a few mm off target.

If you are doing your own work where time isn't of essence, you can glue plugs in with No More Nails etc. when the holes spread. Do it one day and leave it overnight. Blow the dust out and work the adhesive around to pick up any remainder, or wash it out if the stuff you're using is water based.

 

[Spectric]

I dislike the ones with a threaded centre point - they pull in too fast

cannot agree more, you lose all control over the feed in as it just wants to take off.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I dislike spade bits, I wouldn't give them house room.

 

[JobandKnock]

I dislike spade bits, I wouldn't give them house room.

Oh I don't know - if you need to make up a one off drill in an odd ball size, or maybe a special tapered bit, etc it can be quite handy to be able to just regrind a spade bit to make a special. They also come in sizes you can't easily get auger bits in. As an example I have a couple of spade bits at 13mm and 17mm respectively which are used solely for Eurobarrel drill outs. Never seen an auger bit in 17mm size yet

 

[Chris Needham]

I understand HSS bits are able to drill wood but get the impression from UKdrills that can drill wood simply by virtue of the fact wood is softer than metal for which they are designed to drill; ie, HSS drill bits aren’t really suitable let alone ideal for drilling wood. Any comments gratefully accepted please.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've spent 50 + years not using any other for smaller holes in wood. Lip and spurs may well be better better but for 99% of uses decent ones aren't worth the price premium, and poor quality ones are not worth the metal they're made of.

 

[TRITON]

Best tool I've found for the job are these Trend Snappy drill/countersink bits:

Personally I find they to be rubbish. From breaking to the allenkey grub screw unable to hold it tight enough to stop turning, and that grub screw is made of soft cheese. If anything it should be replaced with a torx bit.
I cant even change some of the older ones of this type i have as its too tight and an attempt has rounded the Allen socket. And thats from new, not having changed it multiple times.


The best type to my knowledge was I think from Bosch, possibly called 'screw mate' bits(I forget) from years ago.
Thinking on it they might have been made by Stanley
Found some.

 

[mikej460]

Personally I find they to be rubbish. From breaking to the allenkey grub screw unable to hold it tight enough to stop turning, and that grub screw is made of soft cheese. If anything it should be replaced with a torx bit.
I cant even change some of the older ones of this type i have as its too tight and an attempt has rounded the Allen socket. And thats from new, not having changed it multiple times.


The best type to my knowledge was I think from Bosch, possibly called 'screw mate' bits(I forget) from years ago.
Thinking on it they might have been made by Stanley
Found some.View attachment 127662

The Stanley ones are no longer made and cost a fortune from the States

 

[JobandKnock]

Personally I find they to be rubbish. From breaking to the allenkey grub screw unable to hold it tight enough to stop turning, and that grub screw is made of soft cheese. If anything it should be replaced with a torx bit.

I find it helps if you don't use the Trend hex key and instead use a decent one - I have a set of Wera hex keys which are both harder and fit the sockets better than the cheapo ones Trend supply. I didn't realise they were a problem, but I really haven't had your problems with rounding the socket in 10 plus years of using them

Thinking on it they might have been made by Stanley
Found some.View attachment 127662

The Stanley ones have been out of production for maybe 25 years, now. For some reason these days they seem to be a favourite of the boat-building fraternity. I was never that much of a fan, having snapped a couple of them (at a time when I was on little money and they were relatively expensive). The other (bigger) issue with them was that they are fixed in size, so if you buy a 3/4in x #8 then that is all it will drill. Want to pilot a 1in x #8? You need to buy that size, sir. Want a 1-1/2in x #8? That'll be another size, sir. Want to counterbore as well? That's a different range, sir, so you'll need to buy them as well. So for versatility you need to either carry a lot of them around (weighty and expensive) or you can make the pilot hole with one, then swap drill bits and make it a bit deeper. That's a waste of time and effort for a jobber (think about a pipe boxing with maybe 20 off screws in it or an IPS frame with the same number of screws in the cladding times however many apartments you are doing in a day), which is probably why they died the death. With a Trend (or similar) type I can handle most holes from #4 screws to #12s with 5 or maybe 6 bits - a massive saving - and they have a 1/4in hext drive so I only need to carry an impact driver, not a drill as well

 

[baldkev]

Has anyone had a decent set of hex shaft twist drill bits? I had some cheap ones years back, but they were rubbish. I saw some bosch ones for 30 quid the other day, but having just got a new set i didnt get them.

 

[Chris Needham]

Has anyone had a decent set of hex shaft twist drill bits? I had some cheap ones years back, but they were rubbish. I saw some bosch ones for 30 quid the other day, but having just got a new set i didnt get them.

Hex shank as in ones for an impact driver?