Did you see the report that boilers sales are to stop 2025

[Phil Pascoe]

... smaller and more numerous schools, hospitals, surgeries ...

Ha bloody ha.
Some of my hospital appointments take a 120 mile round trip and a day. That's OK, apparently, as Plymouth is plenty close enough to serve Cornwall.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Does anyone actually believe that, with the coming massive increase in electric vehicle charging and electric central heating, the national grid generation capacity of the UK will cope?

Not me, for one.

Renewables is a bit of a joke in my eyes simply because there will be insufficient power for the country every time the UK is engulfed in high pressure and no wind.

Or too much wind? Or have they stopped switching them off when it's windy?

 

[Jacob]

.....

Does anyone actually believe that, with the coming massive increase in electric vehicle charging and electric central heating, the national grid generation capacity of the UK will cope? Renewables is a bit of a joke in my eyes simply because there will be insufficient power for the country every time the UK is engulfed in high pressure and no wind..........

But there will be adaptations and new technologies coming along.
Or old technologies in the case of gravity storage for instance. Gravity Storage - a new technology for large scale energy storage.
Also high pressure no wind usually means clear skies so solar energy takes more of the load.
Adaptations could be as simple as everybody having a bit of a holiday when the sun shines.
I reckon EV will be unsupportable on the personal level.

 

[Artiglio]

And yet Ontario generates 60% of its power from nuclear, exports power, and charges 6p/kWh, and that is on top of the nuclear fear mongering cost, which is a probably a few p.

Wind farms are just virtue signalling cast in concrete, and will never power the UK in any meaningful way, just like they don't really power Germany. For every gigawatt built, there will need to another gigawatt of backup technology, and in Germany that means coal. In the end they are an environmental disaster, and an ugly blight on the countryside, future generations will look back at us and laugh. Can't wait for the day when they start pulling them down.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens when all the subsidy backed generation comes to the end of its payment contracts, will the generators be expected to carry on in the real world or will the nation be blackmailed by producers who say they’ll stop energy production unless they get another round of handouts. Should be interesting in 15 years or so, all the micro generation schemes revolving around biomass, wind, solar etc surely can’t be truly efficient financially and will have been built largely to just last a bit longer than their subsidy period.

 

[AlanY]

Lets just go back to good old coal, you knew where you were with coal!

I love this post! Made me laugh out loud.

I never understood why the greenies were so upset by coal in the UK. Yes, there is the CO2 issue (but the eggheads are talking about extracting it from the air now anyway) and yes, there is the acid rain issue (but the prevailing winds took that east-ish so, since we are no longer in the clutches of the EU, not our problem, really). But look on the good side: we have plenty of it, it would keep whole communities employed, if we want to wind up the miners (and who wouldn't?) we can import the stuff from Poland and Australia and, best of all, it would reintroduce a bit of lost culture to our daily language ('going down t'pit', for example). Ah, those were the days.

 

[Spectric]

and an ugly blight on the countryside,

That is something that cannot be argued, it is more of an issue when they blight our AONB's but they tend to be the more windy places so stick um out to sea.

 

[Spectric]

Or too much wind? Or have they stopped switching them off when it's windy?

I think if they are asked to switch off as to much capacity they still get paid which is completly stupid. They also use heaters in really cold weather for frost protection so also a consumer.

 

[AlanY]

But there will be adaptations and new technologies coming along.
Or old technologies in the case of gravity storage for instance. Gravity Storage - a new technology for large scale energy storage.
Also high pressure no wind usually means clear skies so solar energy takes more of the load.
Adaptations could be as simple as everybody having a bit of a holiday when the sun shines.
I reckon EV will be unsupportable on the personal level.

Jacob, I am beginning to understand that you are a 'glass half full' sort of guy!
I know this particular example is still at the 'we have patents, just need a sucker to buy it' stage, but storage technologies like this (pumped storage) provide relatively high amounts of energy, but for a relatively short period of time. For example, the Dinorwig power station in beautiful Wales can provide something like nine gW over a period of five or six hours. So, great for covering short periods when electricity demand is high, but not much use for anything above six hours.
Also of note is that the business model for such storage is based on charging very high prices when generating, but recharge using low priced energy. Very important when considering that the recharge takes more energy than the facility can generate. We no longer live in times where there is any such thing as 'off-peak' electricity available so to recharge spent storage will put a great strain on a renewables-based system. It would not surprise me to see the cost/benefit analysis for pumped storage diminish as fossil-fuelled generation plant is decommissioned.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, I am beginning to understand that you are a 'glass half full' sort of guy!

Well yes but we have no alternative but to look for ways out of the hole we've dug for ourselves (literally in the case of coalmines!)

I know this particular example is still at the 'we have patents, just need a sucker to buy it' stage, but storage technologies like this (pumped storage) provide relatively high amounts of energy, but for a relatively short period of time. For example, the Dinorwig power station in beautiful Wales can provide something like nine gW over a period of five or six hours. So, great for covering short periods when electricity demand is high, but not much use for anything above six hours.

Another gravity suggestion Full Page Reload Winching up weights and lowering them on demand - is much more efficient than pumped hydro electric, is cheaper to build and run, can be set up on any scale in almost any environment. One location suggested has been vertical mine shafts, of which we have miles in the UK. I know it sounds a bit Heath Robinson - but you never know!

...... It would not surprise me to see the cost/benefit analysis for pumped storage diminish as fossil-fuelled generation plant is decommissioned.

All has to be set against the cost benefit analysis of not doing anything.

 

[Spectric]

We no longer live in times where there is any such thing as 'off-peak' electricity available so to recharge spent storage will put a great strain on a renewables-based system.

As the population continues to grow and we want more 24/7 then the problem is higher consumption and more continous demand, so are we really just looking for the hen that lays golden eggs. There are probably solutions but these would require drastic change at all levels and no government is going to take that step as it would become very unpopular and people just would not accept it so we carry on. I believe it is not a case of meeting demand but drastically reducing demand, yes lifestyle changes required.

 

[D_W]

Well yes but we have no alternative but to look for ways out of the hole we've dug for ourselves (literally in the case of coalmines!)Another gravity suggestion Full Page Reload Winching up weights and lowering them on demand - is much more efficient than pumped hydro electric, is cheaper to build and run, can be set up on any scale in almost any environment. One location suggested has been vertical mine shafts, of which we have miles in the UK. I know it sounds a bit Heath Robinson - but you never know!All has to be set against the cost benefit analysis of not doing anything.

Surely, this comment is in jest.

 

[D_W]

Let's do some calculations - one horsepower moves 33,000 pounds one foot per minute (for lift). 746 watts with perfect efficiency.

If someone has a 750 watt draw (let's round) for ten hours, all they need to have for that period of time is a 33000 pound weight *for each user* traveling 600 feet.

That's funny....except the average draw (not peak, just long term average) in the US is 1.2kw per household.

 

[AlanY]

Well yes but we have no alternative but to look for ways out of the hole we've dug for ourselves (literally in the case of coalmines!)Another gravity suggestion Full Page Reload Winching up weights and lowering them on demand - is much more efficient than pumped hydro electric, is cheaper to build and run, can be set up on any scale in almost any environment. One location suggested has been vertical mine shafts, of which we have miles in the UK. I know it sounds a bit Heath Robinson - but you never know!All has to be set against the cost benefit analysis of not doing anything.

Sorry, Jacob, but I think the gravity suggestion is a nonstarter. Renewables is never going to satisfy demand. The only thing left is nuclear. Perhaps it is time to recognise this and simply commit to increasing our nuclear generation capacity five-fold? But we should do this ourselves and it should be in public ownership, rather than rely on China (a country that I would not trust as far as I could throw it) to finance and build the stations. Reliable capacity plus a massive increase in UK employment. Yup, that is what I would do.

 

[Spectric]

Nuclear over the entire product life cycle is not carbon neutral and as Hinkley has shown a massive engineering challenge with great financial risk, you don't get a license to operate after the build is completed you have to jump through many hoops and provide a massive pile of documentation and hence why the cost runs into billions. If we start today we will not have much in ten years time except a huge financial investment, so lets put a lot more effort into improving efficiency of electrical equipment and making it more cost effective to run.

 

[sirocosm]

France built 56 reactors in around 15 years in response to the oil crisis of the 70s. They now export power, nuclear is more than 70%, and have less than 10% of generation from fossil fuel. And their power rates are cheaper than the UK, despite a healthy 31% tax. Cheaper and greener.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

France built 56 reactors in around 15 years in response to the oil crisis of the 70s ...

yes, that's when we should have built them.

 

[sirocosm]

I hate to say it, but sometimes the French know what they are doing. They also have cleaner air than their neighbors. Nuclear power probably saves them over 1000 deaths per year from particulate matter from fossil and bio fuels, although they still have to deal with the dust blowing in from Germany.

They are also currently building a big nuclear fusion research site.

The sad thing about France is that the renewables brigade is starting to make inroads there as well, which is already starting to push up prices.

 

[Jacob]

https://theecologist.org/2015/feb/05/false-solution-nuclear-power-not-low-carbon

 

[dizjasta]

Let's do some calculations - one horsepower moves 33,000 pounds one foot per minute (for lift). 746 watts with perfect efficiency.

If someone has a 750 watt draw (let's round) for ten hours, all they need to have for that period of time is a 33000 pound weight *for each user* traveling 600 feet.

That's funny....except the average draw (not peak, just long term average) in the US is 1.2kw per household.

Just for some additional calculations. To achieve your average US draw of 1.2kw per household the weight required on the basis of what you mention would need to be increased to 52977.61 pounds. So it seems that it is possible to supply energy by falling weights, Do you think wind power could provide the motive force?

 

[D_W]

Just for some additional calculations. To achieve your average US draw of 1.2kw per household the weight required on the basis of what you mention would need to be increased to 52977.61 pounds. So it seems that it is possible to supply energy by falling weights, Do you think wind power could provide the motive force?

Not locally here. Possibly solar. The idea that this is more practical than a recycled 100kwhr battery is very suspicious, though.