Damp In The Workshop

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Mike.C

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As some of you will know due to health reasons for years now I have been unable to really get into the workshop, but in the last few weeks due to the improvement in the drugs/treatment I take, things have improved greatly and so I have started to get back to the land of the living, and will hopefully be able to finally CONTRIBUTE something to the forum. I seemed to have taken a lot from this forum but hardly given anything back.

While I am at it I would like to thank members like Philly who have helped me tremendously in the background.

One of the things that I need advice on is lighting for the WIP photos and some reviews I am supposed to be doing. I just cannot seem to get it right, even though there was 8 florescence tubes put up a few years ago. (26ftx14ft).

But today while trying to sort the workshop out I came across an even bigger problem and that is damp at one end. :cry:

If I explain about the workshop it might help aid in any advice.

It is 2 storey (both floors the same size) and before it was bombed in the war used to be a house (although unusable it still has 3 fireplaces). It was originally made of granite and half of this is still in place. At sometime in the past it was rebuilt into a workshop using bricks at the sides and for some reason concrete blocks on top of the granite at the front. The rear walls are all still granite on both floors. They also put a flat roof on the building, and I suppose to cover up the difference in building materials they pebble dashed the whole thing :cry:
One of the only problems with the building is where it is situated, which is about 5 feet below our house, which means the garden/patio is 5 feet up one wall of the workshop (the other 3 walls are clear) and this is the wall that is damp.

I did have a bit of a damp problem (on the same wall) outside a few years ago and a couple of crumbling bricks inside but once they fixed a few cracks in the render that appeared to have cured the problem.

The wall that is now damp has a bench built into it's full width, which although made of 6"x"2 (4 wide) and really solid had been used as a mechanics workbench and had oil or some type of fluid soaked into it, and even after planing a fair bit off was still ruined, so I covered the top with 18mm MDF which has given it a great surface to work on. So I was then going to build in some cupboards underneath and because a lot of the lime plaster under the bench had fallen off and it looked rubbish I lined the wall with the same MDF boards, and I was going to make doors out of the same and line the rest of the walls in ply.

My health then took a turn for the worse and so thats how it was left until today, when after moving machines, tools, and other stuff that had been stored both on top and under the bench I found black and white mould in the corners of the bench (on top and underneath) and white mould going up the wall in a few places for about 2 feet above the bench, and it really smells damp.

I was talking to one of the neighbors who said that an old boy who owned the house years ago ran his garage business from there and every time he stored a lot of stuff under the bench he got the same problem, but when he left it clear and it dried out he never had anymore problems, no mould, not even a smell.

It looks like whoever did the building never did any damp proofing outside between the garden and the bricks. The trouble is to do anything about it now would be very hard and expensive because theres 6 inches of concrete under the patio.

I know I have to remove the MDF and let it dry out, but do I then just leave it clear with apparently no more problems, which there wasn't before I put the MDF on. Tank it, which will then allow me to use the space, or is there something better I can do?

I will take some photos of the problem if you think it is worth it but as I said the lighting is not very good.

Cheers

Mike
 
Bit of a naff choice to have to make,Mike :(

Tank it (spend money,but gain useable space)
or
leave it (no cost,but no gain)

Personally,I would remove the MDF and make sure the dampness clears up before deciding.
Only other thing is if heat and airflow from the building actually being used would improve the situation,but that's a bit of a trial-and-error process.

Andrew
 
Mike
Glad to hear your back in the workshop! :D
What about getting a dehumidier in there - would keep the damp at bay?
Hope this helps
Philly :D
 
Andrew, I am going to start ripping the MDF off tomorrow.

Philly, thanks mate. I have got a dehumidifier in there already (they work great). I think the problem was the MDF and all the stuff stored there stopped it working properly at that end.

It is only that wall that is affected. In fact it isn't until you get up close to it that you even smell anything.

Cheers

Mike
 
Hi Mike,

Sorry, but can't help you with the damp problem but glad to hear that your able to get into the workshop and look forward to some pics :D
 
I have seen this dealt with on tv they cut a cannel in the floor to direct the water coming through the wall to a sump cut in the floor then fixed some tanking fabric stuff to the wet wall to direct the damp to the channel.
 
OLD wrote,
I have seen this dealt with on tv they cut a cannel in the floor to direct the water coming through the wall to a sump cut in the floor then fixed some tanking fabric stuff to the wet wall to direct the damp to the channel.

Thanks OLD.

Has anyone got any info on the above?

As for tanking, I seem to remember reading that you use a black bitumen type material, is this right, and if so, can it be painted when it dry's?

Cheers

Mike
 
Mike,
There are differing degrees of damp problems, generally in two classes.
The first which I suspect you have is coming through or up by capillary action in small quantities and when allowed to evaporate using circulating air (or a dehumidifier) does not cause much of a problem until the circulation is cut off as you have found. Some form of damp proofing should sort this.

The other is much more invasive and usually where the water table outside is higher or similar to the floor level and reasonable quantities of water can get in. here is where proper tanking and channels/sumps and pumps come in. I don't feel this is your problem.

The solution. Clear the whole area the is damp and a few feet more around and above it and the floor if it is affected.
Buy some bitumen emulsion. brands such as Aquaprufe, Synthaprufe or one that wickes do which is cheaper and I think just as good. Tere may be others too. 25l drums of the stuff. This is water based brown gloop which turns to tar as it dries.
Remove all the loose dust debris from the surfaces and then brush on with the cheapest brushes you have. even a small broom but bear in mind they wont clean up and will have to be thrown at the end of the job. Keep used brushes under water in an old bucket. Any clean up you need to do - hands etc use white spirit or paraffin. Gloves can be useful but again they will be ruined.

Put on lots of coats when each coat has gone from black to brown. The whole area will become waterproof when it dries.
'Drying' is a relative term with this stuff as it still comes off onto things so maybe line the surfaces with ply and put something similar on the floor otherwise your boots will stick to it.
If you use insulation on the wall at all the bitumen will attack expanded polystyrene - just put a lay of polythene to isolate it and stop the chemical reaction.

Hope this helps. my whole workshop is sealed with this stuff and is as dry as a bone.

Bob
 
I just wondered why no one has mentioned treating the problem from the other side of the wall(the outside).It should be more effective i assume?
If the wall is granite ,like the Aberdeen type?I would have thought it would be pretty impermeable to water.So itmust be coming it though mortar joints(probably lime mortar,not the most suitable type for stopping moisture if land is banked up against the wall).Is it not possible to do anything like put a vertical membrane between the workshop and the patio??Is the land on a slope?
I would have thought if it is water penetration if the inside is treated with something like bitumin,the damp would just show up further around the wall?? Unless the whole building recieved similar treatment.I suppose if its only very slightly damp ,it may make the problem tolerable!
 
Mike,

Obviously I don't know the source of your illness, but I'd suggest you think twice about mucking around with chemicals etc. especially as they might not work anyway.

Also throw the MDF out ASAP it might be laden with spores etc.

Can you alter your layout so floor near this wall is standing space rather than storage space.

Your total workspace sounds like something most of us dream about
 
Bob.C wrote,
I just wondered why no one has mentioned treating the problem from the other side of the wall(the outside).It should be more effective i assume?
If the wall is granite ,like the Aberdeen type?I would have thought it would be pretty impermeable to water.

Bob, as I said above the concrete under the patio is apparently 6" thick and this goes right up to the workshop wall so it would be a lot of work and money to do a proper job. But I agree that would be the best way to go (if I won the lottery) :lol:

Thanks for the detailed info Bob (9fingers), it is very much appreciated.

Lurker, thanks mate. The wife thought about the spores to so we ripped it off, cut it up and burned it in a furnace :lol:

I could reorganize the lay out, but as I said above the wall where the damp is has a full length built in bench, and my plan was to build cupboards underneath. Obviously this idea is out the window now unless I tank it.
Whatever I do in the end, I am now going to let it dry out and if it remains dry (as it was before the MDF) I might just leave it and use the extra workbench without any storage.
At the time it just seemed a good idea to have 14 feet of cupboards in what otherwise is dead space.

Anyway when we ripped the boards off it was really wet behind so I have turned the dehumidifier right up and moved it down that end of the shop.

Cheers

Mike
 
Our house is an old weavers cottage on the side of a hill. It was originally built into the side of the hill and the room at that end was used as the kitchen (the cold kept things a little bit cooler). When the house was renovated 20 years ago they had to dig an air gap into the hill behind the house - 2' wide and 12' high...

I do not envy you trying to keep that damp at bay with a solid stone wall against a bank.
 
I'm sure Lurker has a valid point about chemical solutions to this problem but the products I suggested are all water based so no nasty petroleum based solvents and the bitumen comes out of emulsion virtually odour free.

I'm allergic to all sorts of pollens and have mild asthma but after a few experiments, sprayed about 90 litres of this stuff on my workshop walls with no obvious effects. (I'm from the generation who was taken out by their mothers when the tar truck was working on the roads for the fumes to help my breathing!!)

Just cos it is ok for me does not make it right for everyone else but I think it is pretty benign and the product is not covered with loads of safety caveats apart from the obvious ones.

So sensible precautions and stop if it is making you feel unwell naturally.

Bob
 
Mike,

You could try to incorporate a means of letting the air circulate beneath and behind the cabinets, perhaps by spacing then a bit away from the floor and wall, although it might well need a small fan to keep the air moving though.

Dod
 
Some years ago when I went into my "workshop" that was then my PC room I noticed that as I slid my finger down the wall the black stuff came away, I thought it was old coal dust and left it alone ( I know I should of cleaned it but I had only just moved in a few weeks before) anyway, I would sit there for hours at the pc in the cold and damp untill one day I got a nasty chest infection which with my problems scared the life out of me, I thought I was a goner, and I ended up on a lot of anti-biotics, one of the things that really had me frightened witless was when a friend told me about a mould that is a killer Stachybotrys, and is rather common in the states I hear causing homes to be demolished.

http://www.insure.com/articles/homeinsurance/mold.html
I was lucky, I would not live with mould ever again.
 
I have had the dehumidifier going full time and it seems to be drying out, because it's certainly filling up the container quickly. I was thinking about putting the heater on at the same time, what do you think?

As I have said I have taken all of the MDF off from the wall, but I left it on the bench because it is a good, flat and long work surface, the only trouble is, in each corner there is a black (about 12" square) stain left from the mould. Is there anyway I can remove this, because I want to varnish it?

Cheers

Mike
 
Most of the heat will rise whereas your damp problem is low down. Obviously warmth must help but it'll certainly add to the electricty bill.

Roy.
 

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