David Charlesworth's article in this month F&C on curved plane blades I found very interesting and useful, particularly the use of the Odate crowning plates. However the opening picture shows a Holtey 98 plane with two extremely thin full width shavings (quite amazing). Assuming the iron was ground using the 2.5 thou plate shown in the picture, I would have thought that one would be able to see a variation in the thickness across their width. Perhaps the resolution of the picture is inadequate to enable this to be seen. Or was it to show the sharp abrubt edge of a square blade.
Crowning glory F&C
- Thread starter newt
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woodbloke
Established Member
Pete - I've just read that as well...very good article. Interested to see the bevels that MrC uses on the illustration of a plane blade at the back of the article, 33deg on a waterstone and then 35deg on an 8000g. Would be interesting to see if a 10000g ceramic stone like yours will give a similar result? Have PM'd you - Rob
woodbloke
Established Member
Have just got back from Pete's...we had an interesting time this afternoon as I took round two identical No4 plane blades freshly ground on the Tormek to 23deg. One was honed in my usual way which is to use a MrC modified honing gauge, hone at 33deg (using finger pressure to make a camber) on an Extra Fine DMT and then refine the edge on a leather strop with Jewellers Rouge, using the 'ruler trick' on the back. The second blade was honed in the same way at 33deg on the DMT but then a micro bevel was honed at 35deg using Pete's 10000g ceramic stone like this one, again 'ruler trick' used on the back. Both edges were very, very sharp, but the micro bevelled edge was much sharper, so much so that both Pete and I have got bits of our forearms devoid of hair from one stroke of the blade. It's also very difficult to see the micro-bevel even under a magnifying glass but it has to be honed as you can see the metal residue in the WD40 used as a lubricant. Very impressed, so will shortly be placing and order :wink: - Rob
Philly
Established Member
Not seen the article yet, Chaps.
The three bevel angles - could you use the Veritas MKII (with its three micro bevel changes) to do the same thing? I take it the point of the article is to hone slightly higher micro bevels with progressively higher grits?
Cheers
Philly
The three bevel angles - could you use the Veritas MKII (with its three micro bevel changes) to do the same thing? I take it the point of the article is to hone slightly higher micro bevels with progressively higher grits?
Cheers
Philly
woodbloke
Established Member
Philly - I think that's the notion but as I don't have the Veritas gauge I have to make do with the MrC modified Eclipse clone which works very well but has to be set each time with the 'bench hook' setting gauge...the ceramic stone is fantastic , dead flat and can be cleaned by just rubbing over with the Green DMT to remove swarf - Rob
with the MrC modified Eclipse clone which works very well but has to be set each time with the 'bench hook' setting gauge...the ceramic stone is fantastic , dead flat and can be cleaned by just rubbing over with the Green DMT to remove swarf - Rob
David C
In Memorium
Thanks chaps, so glad you enjoyed it.
The Holtey 98 shaving does taper a tiny amount, it can be set with no blade corner sticking out, for working across wide surfaces, leaving a much less pronounced scallop.
The camber on that blade is very small from the Odate plate at 33 degrees, then polished as usual at 35 degrees on 10,000 grit polishing stone, with ruler trick (natch ~;-)# ) on 10,000 grit stone.
It should be clear that, at the 22 1/2 deg bedding of the Holtey, the wood sees less of the camber from the plate.
The one in the photo might have been taken from a board just less than the width of exposed blade, so tapering of edge not so visible.
I have been using the same sharpening routine for years now.
Grind at 23, 800 stone at 33, polish at 35. Regrind needed about every 7 to 9 sharpenings.
The advantage of the two honing angles is that it reduces time on polishing stone to minimum, four gentle caressing strokes in each finger position only. It also reduces time on coarse stone. as only a tiny wire edge is needed, to demonstrate that we have got past the wear bevels on the edge.
This system works perfectly on A2 D2 M2 etc and I have never seen a sharper blade and neither have any of my students. I am convinced that those who choose to sharpen A2 on oilstones are not getting the full benefit of the steel. I would imagine ceramic worked well though in the old days the Spyderco were not flat. What make is being used here please?
David Charlesworth
The Holtey 98 shaving does taper a tiny amount, it can be set with no blade corner sticking out, for working across wide surfaces, leaving a much less pronounced scallop.
The camber on that blade is very small from the Odate plate at 33 degrees, then polished as usual at 35 degrees on 10,000 grit polishing stone, with ruler trick (natch ~;-)# ) on 10,000 grit stone.
It should be clear that, at the 22 1/2 deg bedding of the Holtey, the wood sees less of the camber from the plate.
The one in the photo might have been taken from a board just less than the width of exposed blade, so tapering of edge not so visible.
I have been using the same sharpening routine for years now.
Grind at 23, 800 stone at 33, polish at 35. Regrind needed about every 7 to 9 sharpenings.
The advantage of the two honing angles is that it reduces time on polishing stone to minimum, four gentle caressing strokes in each finger position only. It also reduces time on coarse stone. as only a tiny wire edge is needed, to demonstrate that we have got past the wear bevels on the edge.
This system works perfectly on A2 D2 M2 etc and I have never seen a sharper blade and neither have any of my students. I am convinced that those who choose to sharpen A2 on oilstones are not getting the full benefit of the steel. I would imagine ceramic worked well though in the old days the Spyderco were not flat. What make is being used here please?
David Charlesworth
woodbloke
Established Member
David C wrote -
David - the 10000g stone we were using at Petes is the one shown in the link above from Axminster and it's dead flat - Rob
David - the 10000g stone we were using at Petes is the one shown in the link above from Axminster and it's dead flat - Rob
David C
In Memorium
Rob,
Thank you. Glad to hear they are flat now!
David
Thank you. Glad to hear they are flat now!
David
D.C. thank you for the explanation, I did not realise that the lower bedding angle will of course reduce the effective bevel. I also assumed that the shavings were the full width of the blade, which would not be so if the board edge was less. A very interesting article and we had great success with the ceramic stone as Rob has described.
David C
In Memorium
Newt,
The great thing to hear is that you had good success.
David
The great thing to hear is that you had good success.
David
Say fella's have you seen this beauty on fleebay at the moment.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=011
I thought you may be interested given your reference to the plane and article in F & C which is also mentioned in the sales information.
Very nice looking plane.
Esc.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=011
I thought you may be interested given your reference to the plane and article in F & C which is also mentioned in the sales information.
Very nice looking plane.
Esc.
oddsocks
Established Member
can someone explain the 'ruler trick' to me please. I've searched the forum and found many threads that mention it but haven't found the one that explains it (mind you many of the hits have 5+pages so I'd be reading for hours!).
Thanks
Dave
Thanks
Dave
jmk89
Established Member
oddsocks":1iugl0dn said:
Dave
Have a look at http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpe ... tml#naming
Scroll down to "David Charlesworth technique" - read that. Then go back to the beginning and read the lot - it's good stuff.
Cheers
Jeremy
bugbear
Established Member
jmk89":3phxq3v3 said:
Hmm. Brent doesn't even mention "secondary bevel". I think I'll tell him.
BugBear
David C
In Memorium
Then of course there are the books, very reasonable, or the first dvd.
I think Brent has it more or less correct. ~;-)# Many do not.
grinding, primary, secondary, back, double, micro, these bevels have confusing names..........
David
I think Brent has it more or less correct. ~;-)# Many do not.
grinding, primary, secondary, back, double, micro, these bevels have confusing names..........
David
oddsocks
Established Member
Jeremy, thanks for the link - a comprehensive explanation and one now bookmarked!
