Crapola mags....

[crazylilting]

BMac,

That man is dead on. I know this is off topic but it's got to be said, if their were more people with the attitude he was talking about there would be more high end mags in this country. Because there would be more craftsmen eager to learn just a little more, hone their skills just a little more, etc.

My partner was upset at me because i think that most people aren't worth giving them a chance and teaching them. But i didn't sacrifice about 8 of my years working for the brutal bosses i did, just to give it away to someone who will hold me hostage. I gave my all and was repaid with a craft that will see me out till the day i die, now that's who i want to hire someone who will do the same and buy really good magazines *smiles*

 

[ivan]

FW seemed great when it was full of line drawings and lots of print ~20 yrs back; now looks a bit too "coffee table" for my liking, but I still subscribe.

Gave up on F&C when it cut editorial pages by 20% recently, effectively upping the price. I agree about the Huntley decline, probably relates to his opening editorial saying mag must change, to up circulation. Must try BW.

Alas everybody wants it NOW and at lowest price; that attitude even seems to be applied to their career, as well as purchasing decisions.

 

[ondablade]

That video to me is right on the nail - i don't think it's off topic at all. And the question of character goes far beyond apprenticeship - you've got to be doing whatever you do right for the right reasons.

It's this that delivers the right motivation, that natural instinct to improve, and to deliver a fair deal - not to mention the trust on the part of the customer that's a central part of what makes the whole thing possible.

Lack of appreciation for this is why tool and machine sellers lie all the time, why makers risk putting profit before standards, mags shortcut and sell short their readership for a quick buck, etc etc. Maybe even why indeed we've seen what could yet be the beginning of a very rapid decline of the western economies..

On ability to handle detail and tedium - i can't help thinking that this age of computer games and instant gratification has produced more than few kids with enormous expectations, very little appreciation for the underlying realities of life and the attention span of a horsefly.

That said maybe what's really changed is that back years ago when you were apprenticed to a hairy old blacksmith seven villages over it was deliver or not eat. Maybe it's only now with so much easy money and freedom, and such a low level of compulsion about that we're getting down to understanding that there actually is a fundamental need to do the right thing for the right reasons...

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... I rarely see any good woodworks done in this country which is quite shocking...

I thought i was moving to a country of craftsmen but to my shock and horror this isn't even remotely the case. I was glad to find this forum as i can see some hope. Perhaps it is the area i live in but it seems to be void of Crafts men...

crazylilting old buddy, I have a feeling you need to look up from the magazines you barely read, from the computer monitor you look at so intently, and from the workbench your nose must be glued to.

To say that you "rarely see any good woodworks done in this country" suggests you might need to raise your head and look at what's going on in the world around you. Have a look at the following websites: bear in mind there are probably hundreds of British and Irish based working furniture designer makers that are not members of any of these organisations. Slainte.

http://www.designermakers.org.uk/
http://www.scottishfurnituremakers.org.uk/index.php
http://213.175.197.130/~northern/index.php
http://www.furnituremkrs.co.uk/

 

[Mr Ed]

Some interesting links there, thanks Richard.

Ed

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Some interesting links there, thanks Richard. Ed

Ed, I should point out that I didn't link to all the regional organisations, such as the ones in Devon, Cornwall, Norfolk, etc. There are members of those groups that are not members of other groups. In my case I am a member of both NCFM and DMOU; NCFM is a sub-group loosely linked to DMOU. Similarly some of the Scottish furniture designer makers are members of DMOU too, and some are not, etc. Slainte.

 

[MikeG.]

crazylilting old buddy, I have a feeling you need to look up from the magazines you barely read, from the computer monitor you look at so intently, and from the workbench your nose must be glued to.

To say that you "rarely see any good woodworks done in this country" suggests you might need to raise your head and look at what's going on in the world around you. Have a look at the following websites: bear in mind there are probably hundreds of British and Irish based working furniture designer makers that are not members of any of these organisations. Slainte.

Well said Slainte, well said.

 

[Ironballs]

I agree, I look at what appears in the makers and readers galleries sections of the US and UK mags and whilst the quality is very high in both, the UK stuff seems to be a lot more modern and free thinking, you don't get the meticulous reproductions of 18/19th C furniture in mahogany that the US guys do

 

[yetloh]

Have to agree with that. It may be clever, but I can't stand those totally over the top gigantic US pieces of the type the Smithsonian seems to be stuffed full of.

Each to his own taste but I don't see the point given that we live in the 21stC.

Jim

 

[crazylilting]

I did qualify my post by saying

Perhaps it is the area i live in but it seems to be void of Crafts men...

and i still stand by it. There is a population of 64 Million in the UK verses the 30 Million in Canada. No matter where i lived in Canada I found a thriving Woodworking community that was supported by infrastructure of unlimited materials, tools and supplies. This doesn't happen without the population to feed it. So prove me wrong. The list of sites provided give a small number of names under a couple hundred in a population of 64 million which is my point. There isn't enough quality woodworking going on to support the infrastructure that a country half it's size enjoys and takes for granted.

I know people will take offense to what i say but it has to be said and it is the truth. I guess if you haven't seen how the rest of the world lives you'd have no clue, but being as i have lived else where I do know what i'm talking about. The state of the apprenticeship board here is appalling an there is a serious lack of qualified craftsmen this is no secret and i would bet a few quid that quite a number of the trades people on the list on those sites are from other countries outside of the UK.

It's ok to take offense to my comments but you should also look at the reality of what is said, you wonder why you can't find good deals on equipment, tools and supplies in this country nor any worthy publications that sets a standard? You just need to open your eyes.

Of course there are some great craftsmen, but their numbers are simply to low to make a difference in the high end infrastructure that they need to support them.

 

[woodbloke]

... I rarely see any good woodworks done in this country which is quite shocking...

I thought i was moving to a country of craftsmen but to my shock and horror this isn't even remotely the case. I was glad to find this forum as i can see some hope. Perhaps it is the area i live in but it seems to be void of Crafts men...

crazylilting old buddy, I have a feeling you need to look up from the magazines you barely read, from the computer monitor you look at so intently, and from the workbench your nose must be glued to.

To say that you "rarely see any good woodworks done in this country" suggests you might need to raise your head and look at what's going on in the world around you. Have a look at the following websites: bear in mind there are probably hundreds of British and Irish based working furniture designer makers that are not members of any of these organisations. Slainte.

http://www.designermakers.org.uk/
http://www.scottishfurnituremakers.org.uk/index.php
http://213.175.197.130/~northern/index.php
http://www.furnituremkrs.co.uk/

Richard - succinctly put, as ever :wink: - Rob

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I guess if you haven't seen how the rest of the world lives you'd have no clue, but being as i have lived else where I do know what i'm talking about.

I lived in Texas for ten years and ran my own furniture design and making business there for nearly all that time. I think that qualifies me slightly to comment on the state of the business of furniture design and craftsmanship in at least two parts of the world.

You just need to open your eyes.

Mine are definitely open, and have been for many years.

I can't deny that the scene is different over here compared to North America; there's no reason to expect the same art and design scene in two different cultures. The furniture world is certainly alive and kicking in the UK, and training is available for up and coming furniture designer makers. Slainte.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Apologies, but I missed this thread or I would have contributed earlier. I'm trying to get Living Woods to press tonight, so I'll keep this brief.

I apologise for any 'sloppy editing' Rob. It's the price of producing a magazine on virtually no budget, and working too long. To be honest, it's either that or you don't get a magazine because there is absolutely no slack in my organisation (that's me, largely). As Tennessee Williams said: "Throw out my demons and you may throw out my angels as well." The trouble is that readers have such high expectations of mags these days, expecting us to have websites, and video and fantastic graphics, and blogs etc.... It's hard to keep the quality of your main medium up with so many distractions diluting the message.

It's really interesting to read DickM liked Woodworker back in the 1980s. I started on the mag in 1987, and I'm convinced it was at its most interesting then. It too was produced on a shoestring, but it had character and we wrote about whatever we wanted. Perhaps it's harking back to those days that makes the design of British Woodworking a bit old fashioned. We always had a full postbag.

This is going to sound strange, but in some ways I'm saddened that the launch of Good Woodworking all those years ago forced Woodworker to change. We had some fantastic writers at Good Woodworking, but its focus on machine and power tool testing rather altered the British magazines. It was one of those inevitable evolutions of magazines, but I have my suspicions that it led to too much formulaic publishing.

I'm always intrigued to read so much about testing in magazines on the forum. I'm not sure magazines are the ideal police force for testing, and certainly at British Woodworking I prefer to focus on the more interesting elements of machines and tools, and how one interacts with them, rather than trying to compare one almost identical drill press with another. In that respect I think forums like this are ideal ways for people to share information about what is good and bad. One of the problems, I think, is that woodworkers tend to try to build up their workshops too fast, and as a result they sometimes make decisions too quickly, trying to get all the kit in one go rather than letting their workshop evolve.

I agree with Ironballs about Singletrack. That is produced by old acquaintances of mine, and I admire what they have done. They too are a tiny operation that have been able to be a bit maverick by not having too much middle management directing them. They came from the same publishing company that produced Good Woodworking, and perhaps they too have reacted by making a magazine with more heart and soul. If that means it's less polished, as might be the case for British Woodworking, then once again I can only apologise, but bring in the quality controllers who improve the editing and you're only a step away from the management by mediocracy that stultifies most woodworking magazines everywhere.

That said, I will keep trying to make the editing less sloppy, and improve the 'textural presentation' (whatever that is).

Cheers

Nick

 

[woodbloke]

That said, I will keep trying to make the editing less sloppy, and improve the 'textural presentation' (whatever that is).

Cheers

Nick

When I come accross the sort of thing I mean next time I'm reading BW I'll let you know :lol: - Rob

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks, Rob

There's also a difficult balance to find between articles that are 'experiential' (and give a magazine life and character) and those that are 'tutorial' (and rather straight). I'd like a few more of the latter in British Woodworking, but really good ones are the most difficult to find. It helps having John Lloyd on board now because he has a questioning mind, but well-trained hands.

Cheers

Nick

 

[woodbloke]

Thanks, Rob

There's also a difficult balance to find between articles that are 'experiential' (and give a magazine life and character) and those that are 'tutorial' (and rather straight). I'd like a few more of the latter in British Woodworking, but really good ones are the most difficult to find. It helps having John Lloyd on board now because he has a questioning mind, but well-trained hands.

Cheers

Nick

He also has a very amusing style (I think so anyway) of writing. I always find his articles strike the right balance of being informative and amusing at the same time...not always easy - Rob

 

[frugal]

The one I noticed most recently is this months F&C. In the article on morticers they missed out the first 4 paragraphs. The article on the web site has the full text, but in the magazine it starts in the middle. When you take into account the photos and the title, they probably missed out the whole first page of the article...

 

[ProShop]

The one I noticed most recently is this months F&C. In the article on morticers they missed out the first 4 paragraphs. The article on the web site has the full text, but in the magazine it starts in the middle. When you take into account the photos and the title, they probably missed out the whole first page of the article...

I also wonder how much Record are paying for inclusion of their products in these features.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I also wonder how much Record are paying for inclusion of their products in these features.

I doubt Record have paid for inclusion in this case, but just to clarify in case anyone thinks otherwise, no company has paid for an item to be included in a test in any magazine I have edited (to my knowledge and memory!!). We've always tested on what seems appropriate at the time. And I'm sure that also the case for Andy King. Technically if a company pays for editorial it has to be clearly labelled as an Advertising Feature or Advertorial. The degree of influence an advertiser has will certainly differ from magazine to magazine, but I've never experienced companies paying for inclusion in a test, though the defining line is probably quite fine.

Cheers

Nick

 

[big soft moose]

Thanks, Rob

There's also a difficult balance to find between articles that are 'experiential' (and give a magazine life and character) and those that are 'tutorial' (and rather straight). I'd like a few more of the latter in British Woodworking, but really good ones are the most difficult to find. It helps having John Lloyd on board now because he has a questioning mind, but well-trained hands.

Cheers

Nick

for my money i'd prefer a magazine that errs towards the experiential with articles about craftmen, their work, and experiences and with less of the dryer tutorial (though i do appreciate that you need some) - if i want tutorial i'll go buy a book.

I'm not knocking what you have done with BW but personally I miss trad wood as it was , which imo had the balance about right.