Coronavirus

[FatmanG]

Hmmmm, people who called me offensive and disgusting for my views that there are some corrupt and power mad Police (admitted true byt the Police themselves last week) are the same people who seem to think capital punishment and vigilante murder are perfectly acceptable. What a topsy turvy world we live in.

Mate if you actually believe what you have just posted is true then i genuinely feel for you

 

[Rorschach]

Mate if you actually believe what you have just posted is true then i genuinely feel for you

Have you read the recent posts by people like RogerS?

I presume that's not directed at me as I don't remember having that discussion with you.

No, I can't see you condoning anything like that in previous posts unless I missed something.

 

[FatmanG]

Mate if you actually believe what you have just posted is true then i genuinely feel for you

Have you read the recent posts by people like RogerS?

I presume that's not directed at me as I don't remember having that discussion with you.

No, I can't see you condoning anything like that in previous posts unless I missed something.

I have had my issues with RogerS in the past so don't think me and him are buddies but he was talking about someone who actually attacked and spat/coughed on a nurse/care worker. Just think about the current climate and what that could mean. RogerS is talking about the consequence of that behaviour in how it should be dealt with. Comparing that with your posts about corrupt police and how front line workers are not heroes they know what there in for posts is not right. RogerS was responding to an actual incident, you were giving your opinion on a vast majority of people, people we need right now and it wasn't a very high opinion of their qualities. Vastly different one opinion that was relevant one that was definitely not.

 

[MikeG.]

Re the comments on Boris, I think people should take a moment before expressing any negative or flippant remarks. I have my own views about his morals, his truthfulness, and his ability, but at the end of the day he is a human being with parents, siblings, children and a partner. That needs to be respected.

Further, he won the last general election overwhelmingly, and has not only a democratic but a constitutional mandate and role, and that too needs respect.

 

[Rorschach]

I have had my issues with RogerS in the past so don't think me and him are buddies but he was talking about someone who actually attacked and spat/coughed on a nurse/care worker. Just think about the current climate and what that could mean. RogerS is talking about the consequence of that behaviour in how it should be dealt with. Comparing that with your posts about corrupt police and how front line workers are not heroes they know what there in for posts is not right. RogerS was responding to an actual incident, you were giving your opinion on a vast majority of people, people we need right now and it wasn't a very high opinion of their qualities. Vastly different one opinion that was relevant one that was definitely not.

Should someone who does that be punished? Of course, severely, almost certainly. Should they be instantly shot dead on the street by a vigilante? Roger tried to take the moral high ground and look down on me for my opinions that differed from his own. Based on what he said though he has no right to do so. It's not the comparison of views, it's the attitude he held.

 

[Droogs]

@AndyKev
You may be interested to know that the King of Nepal passed a decree that anyone caught breaking the corona curfew without proper authority to do so, chit to go out kinda thing - is to be placed in public stocks according to a friend of mine who lives there

 

[Rorschach]

I think the problem is that we in the western world generally have, in material terms, soft and easy lives. Our justice system has also become very soft. A couple of centuries ago you would receive the most dire punishment for e.g. theft. This was rightly recognised as being too harsh on people who often were so destitute that they had no alternative to crime.

I've thought for some time that for some crimes we need to have the option of sentences which carry a degree of brutality as these would be proportionately more effective against people used to a soft life. For offences like the one in question, which are utterly unprovoked, potentially deadly and which can only regarded as being "recreational", I would have thought that severe and extremely painful (possibly public) floggings would be the answer. The stocks could be available for lesser offences like vandalism. Such sentences would be quick, cheap to administer and, I imagine, highly effective in their deterrent influence.

I realise that such a view will provoke outrage from some but I think it worthy of serious consideration. FWIW I want to see a society where people are kind, polite and considerate of their fellows. It might seem odd to resort to such recommendations for dealing with the extreme fringes of civil behaviour.

I realise that this is somewhat off topic but corona is giving rise to a number of side issues.

Ah I now realise this is the post you are referring to.

I agree that in certain areas our justice system has become too soft/ineffective. That being said crime still continues to fall and the world continues to become a safer place. I am afraid I don't agree that we need to make punishments more severe but I do think we need a bit of reform to some areas. I am glad to see you don't condone the disgusting views aired by others here such as summary justice and vigilante murder.

 

[MikeG.]

Hmmmm, people who called me offensive and disgusting for my views that there are some corrupt and power mad Police (admitted true byt the Police themselves last week) are the same people who seem to think capital punishment and vigilante murder are perfectly acceptable. What a topsy turvy world we live in.

Rorschach, you need to just slow down and take a deep breath. If a mate of yours in a pub said "that fool deserves a bullet between the eyes", how would you react? Would you assume he was talking literally, and that it was only the fear of being caught that stopped him from murdering the said individual, or would you understand immediately that this was a figure of speech?

Now, if you think the former, please ring up the police and report Roger. His surname is easily available, and the post which so offended you is still available here as evidence. Go on, put your morals to the test...ring them and report this crime (as you see it).

Or you could take the rational approach of understanding that using hyperbole is standard every day stuff. You yourself will use a figure of speech, an idiom, a phrasal verb, before your mid morning tea break, I promise you. It serves your purpose, for some reason I can't fathom, to allow different standards for yourself than you do for others with regards to figures of speech, and whatever you think of Roger it doesn't reflect well on you to deliberately mis-represent the nature of someone's words.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Droogs,

that is interesting and to me it sounds a little severe just for breaking a curfew. Maybe a warning for a first offence and then the stocks for a second.

Of course we don't know what the conditions are in Nepalese cities. His policy could conceivably be justified.

 

[Lons]

Hmmmm, people who called me offensive and disgusting for my views that there are some corrupt and power mad Police (admitted true byt the Police themselves last week) are the same people who seem to think capital punishment and vigilante murder are perfectly acceptable. What a topsy turvy world we live in.

There are corrupt and power mad people in all walks of life and all establishments of course there are as human nature includes greed as instinct but if you actually lived as neighbours to some of those offenders which my brother does or have worked in a prison which my wife did and a number of close friends still do then you might perhaps have a different view on how some of them should be punished and punished is the whole point. Soft prisons which they all are just make for more clued up offenders and for the majority are not the answer.
I'm not sure what is the answer but punishment needs to be a deterrent to re-offending!

As far as "vigilante murder", think again and as suggested several pages ago by Mike, look up the word hyperbole. If you really think Roger would stomp up and down the high street waving a rifle at people you're watching too many films imo.

EDIT: Roscharch I've just noticed your last post and that of MikeG so mine is a little out of date.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Or you could take the rational approach of understanding that using hyperbole is standard every day stuff. You yourself will use a figure of speech, an idiom, a phrasal verb, before your mid morning tea break, I promise you. It serves your purpose, for some reason I can't fathom, to allow different standards for yourself than you do for others with regards to figures of speech, and whatever you think of Roger it doesn't reflect well on you to deliberately mis-represent the nature of someone's words.

That's fair, real world comment. If I had to cough up a tenner for every time I've said something like, "X should be shot" where X = a leading politician, sports commentator, footballer, arts type, crook or Elton John, I'd probably have had to take out a loan.

 

[Rorschach]

Rorschach, you need to just slow down and take a deep breath. If a mate of yours in a pub said "that fool deserves a bullet between the eyes", how would you react? Would you assume he was talking literally, and that it was only the fear of being caught that stopped him from murdering the said individual, or would you understand immediately that this was a figure of speech?

Now, if you think the former, please ring up the police and report Roger. His surname is easily available, and the post which so offended you is still available here as evidence. Go on, put your morals to the test...ring them and report this crime (as you see it).

Or you could take the rational approach of understanding that using hyperbole is standard every day stuff. You yourself will use a figure of speech, an idiom, a phrasal verb, before your mid morning tea break, I promise you. It serves your purpose, for some reason I can't fathom, to allow different standards for yourself than you do for others with regards to figures of speech, and whatever you think of Roger it doesn't reflect well on you to deliberately mis-represent the nature of someone's words.

I understand hyperbole and I agree, there are things said in conversation that people do not necessarily condone. Had Roger actually said that though, or has he confirmed that he does indeed think this suitable? And not just Roger, others here have said the same. Hyperbole when saying an off the cuff remark is one thing, taking the time to write it out and then confirm it again is another.
I do appreciate your remarks though and trying to bring some sensibility but at the moment I believe you to be wrong and I think those people really do mean it, I hope that isn't the case.

As to my own differing standards, could you be more specific as to where you think I was being hyperbolic? I am not to proud to clarify my statements or retract them where I might have gone too far. I know I am not a perfect moral arbiter, far from it, they are only opinions after all and subject to change.

 

[Droogs]

Nepal is following the total lock-down route. They basically went round and got all the tourists during Jan/Feb and got them repatriated. They have had I think less than 50 cases so far. All borders are closed except for essential goods basically. They do only have around 500 ITU type beds for the country as a whole, all private hospitals have been told to treat Covid cases for free and may not pass on any patients to state hospitals. They have had 5 deaths and 4 of those were Nepalis in New York

 

[Andy Kev.]

Nepal is following the total lock-down route. They basically went round and got all the tourists during Jan/Feb and got them repatriated. They have had I think less than 50 cases so far. All borders are closed except for essential goods basically. They do only have around 500 ITU type beds for the country as a whole, all private hospitals have been told to treat Covid cases for free and may not pass on any patients to state hospitals. They have had 5 deaths and 4 of those were Nepalis in New York

In that case it may well be a sensible policy. It's also probably relatively easy to achieve complete isolation in a Himalayan country. One or two places, like Bhutan, already strictly control the number of visits by foreigners so as to preserve their cultures.

 

[John Brown]

That's it. I'm giving up woodworking almost before I've begun. There's obviously some side effect of sawdust inhalation.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Nepal is following the total lock-down route. They basically went round and got all the tourists during Jan/Feb and got them repatriated. They have had I think less than 50 cases so far.

One can only hope they took all their (used) toilet paper with them..... :lol:

https://www.himalmag.com/following-the- ... per-trail/

 

[MikeG.]

........As to my own differing standards, could you be more specific as to where you think I was being hyperbolic?........

I didn't say you were hyperbolic. I said you use figures of speech. Hyperbole is only one of millions (see what I did there?) of figures of speech. You have chosen to take one figure of speech absolutely literally, and you've just doubled down (as the Americans say) on that. You actually believe that Roger is calling for people to be shot in the street. I'm afraid that at that point you lost the chance to claim rationality in your arguments.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I'm no fan of Boris, but I hope he makes it because the other options are worse. Can you imagine Priti Patel as the PM? #-o

My wife did a double take this morning when she heard that "Dominic's in charge...."

 

[Lons]

That's fair, real world comment. If I had to cough up a tenner for every time I've said something like, "X should be shot" where X = a leading politician, sports commentator, footballer, arts type, crook or Elton John, I'd probably have had to take out a loan.

I'd suggest that it's very likely the vast majority of people have said it, some more often than others throughout their lives. My dad's usual was " I'll swing for him", no good since the abolished hanging of course.

Don't depend on that loan Andy, the banks won't lend it! :wink:

 

[Blackswanwood]

I'd suggest that it's very likely the vast majority of people have said it, some more often than others throughout their lives. My dad's usual was " I'll swing for him", no good since the abolished hanging of course.

As this thread has moved off Coronavirus I don't feel bad about taking it further and asking whether the expression to swing for someone relates to throwing a punch or hanging them? Lons - unlike most people on here today I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right - just wondered and happy to be educated!!