copying this dinning table design. Jointing ideas

[rdesign]

Sorry my image won't load. The joint is a compond mitre Y with the 2 branches spliting at an angle of 120 degrees and slopeing down at 5 degrees the centre rail remains horizontal. Without a picture I know its hard to visualise. I'll email thepicture to anyone if they could attach it to the post. The stock will be 55mm x55mm square
Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Here you go

 

[rdesign]

Thanks Roger
As you can see the centre rail is a few cms above the ground floating its this angled y joint that I'm not sure of a strong sensible jointing method.
Regards Richard

 

[RogerBoyle]

Most likely to just be a dowel if the table came from one of the mass produced companies
You could use a domino machine or router or even hand tools . I would mitre the legs together, Clamp them and then cut a mortise into them for a loose tenon, then mark the leg and base and cut a mortise into them as well for loose tenons I do not think that biscuits would be strong enough to use in this instance

Roger

 

[Racers]

Hi,

I did a similar joint on my table using home made beach ply wood.

That would reinforce the joints.


Pete

 

[custard]

If you have the equipment and skills to accurately machine the components then it would be straightforward to use dominos or loose tenons for the actual jointing.

With 55mm x 55mm sections you're probably looking at stacked dominos, which isn't difficult but it does put a premium on how accurately the Domino machine is set up (for joints like this Dominos often don't work perfectly out of the box and need calibrating), in particular you'd need to be confident that the centre line on the transparent window is accurately located, and that the spring out pins/paddles are consistent from left to right. Guidelines for both these calibrations are widely available on the web.

In any event, step one is a full size drawing of the joints.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Most likely to just be a dowel if the table came from one of the mass produced companies. Roger

The piece in that photograph may be mass produced Roger, but if it is it's possibly a knock off of one of Paul Case's Spyder range of furniture, which I think may have recently won recognition of some sort in The Wood Awards.

If it is a knock off of one of Paul's pieces, I find it amusing to think that a designer (implied by the handle rdesign) might be asking for help to knock off a knock off, and is also struggling to design the joinery... Slainte.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Most likely to just be a dowel if the table came from one of the mass produced companies. Roger

The piece in that photograph may be mass produced Roger, but if it is it's possibly a knock off of one of Paul Case's Spyder range of furniture, which I think may have recently won recognition of some sort in The Wood Awards.

If it is a knock off of one of Paul's pieces, I find it amusing to think that a designer (implied by the handle rdesign) might be asking for help to knock off a knock off, and is also struggling to design the joinery... Slainte.

Hence my disclaimer if it came from a mass produced company LOL
I thought I recognised the style of design but I didn't know from where .

From what I have seen of Paul Case's designs of the spider range they all have thin leg sections which join at more acute angles and do not join such a large base slab which still makes me think that it is a knock off LOL

And yes I do get the irony lol

 

[Modernist]

I am not familiar with this designer or the piece, so putting the ethics to one side for a moment, how could you make the joint. The stock does not look much like square in the pic but it could be misleading. At 55mm sqr there is not much room for loose tenons of any sort so are we talking a pair of ply splines?

 

[Togalosh]

I did a similar joint on my table using home made beach ply wood.
Pete

I like your style.. how thick were the veneers/layers & what glue did you use?.. if you don't mind me picking your brain ot course

 

[Richard S]

Did you use driftwood for the beach ply

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... putting the ethics to one side for a moment, how could you make the joint?

I would investigate the possibility of doing it with a three way splined compound mitre, possibly draw-bored from underneath for additional mechanical locking and overall strength. Assembly could probably be accomplished by gluing sacrificial clamping blocks on to each of the members so that pressure could be applied with F or G clamps in the right orientation. An alternative to the clamping blocks might simply be to tape the joint together using tough plastic parcel tape where only the stretch in the tape provides the pressure. Sometimes this KISS principle works better than overcomplicating the job, ie, the clamping blocks and clamps method might be too cumbersome and unwieldy.

I probably wouldn't use typical wood glues such as hot hide, PVA or urea formaldehyde because they set up so quickly-- less than ten minutes, nor go for polyurethane because it tends to push joints apart unless there's plenty of pressure. I might use liquid hide glue because it has an open time of about twenty minutes, and the other candidate I'd look at would be slow set epoxy resin as you get up to an hour to get all the parts lined up, and it has excellent gap filling qualities. This last one, coincidentally, is also a good choice for complex free bent laminating jobs that need a lot of time to assemble and clamp up. Joseph Walsh does a lot of this type of complex laminating, but I'm not sure if he uses epoxy resin for assembly-- I've never thought to ask him what he uses, but epoxy resin seems to be the most logical choice.

Naturally, before I went ahead and made the real thing, or things, I'd knock out at least one full size mock-up to test the procedure. On another note I must admit that I always have questions in my mind about the practical and aesthetic qualities of dining tables, and similar, where stretchers (and other sharp edged obstructions) are positioned at just the right place to give a user a hefty and painful whack on the shin, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[rdesign]

Hi all thanks for the advice.
Pete nice table. the ply spline wouldn't work on angled y joint I think but might be how I go about it by glueing up the v part first at a flat 120 degree angle piece then. using my sliding carraige cut the shoulders for the center piece while leaving stock in the middle to make a tennon.

Sgian Dubh: Thanks for the help and the name of the designer. I'm a woodwork secondary school teacher who studied in letterfrack furniture college. the name is their in a more aspirational way the tables going to be 3 ft 6 wide by 8 feet. the legs will be at a 60 degree angle or greater heading towards the center of the table so shouldn't interfere with the foot space greatly, each leg will be 18 inch from the end. ten people hopefully can sit comfortably and 12 at a squeeze. the joys of a large family.

Thanks again for the advice will draw up solidworks model and throw up some 3d images of what i'm planning and get some further advice thanks again
Regards Richard

 

[rdesign]

Hi just thought i'd show the nearly finished dinning table, sanded just needs a finish to be applied. if anyones interested in how i made it, I can through up the pictures. borrowed a domino to make it without it don't think I would have been able to make it.

Biggest project I have finished,
rick

 

[Racers]

That looks very nice.

Pete

 

[Noggsy]

Lovely. Which end is the tail vice going?

 

[Mike.S]

if anyones interested in how i made it, I can through up the pictures.

rick

Yes please - and imagine you're explaining it to a new pupil with 'special needs' (for my benefit).

 

[custard]

Very nice job, sounds like you're now a Domino convert! I'd be interested how you clamped this table up.

 

[rdesign]

ok yes bar the price tag in love with the domino i used a mixture of wood glue on the dominos and mitre 2 part adhesive on the faces so i didn't need to clamp it just held it together as hard as I could.

the rails are coming up at a 10 degree angle to the centre rail and are at 60 degrees so an equilateral triangle.
I cut these with my sliding carraige on my sip table saw 01332 60 degrees on the table 10 degrees on the blade.

then cut to final size with the ten degree blade set.

had to cut it square to allow it to join to the centre rail

this is the two butted up to see if they r correct

next post will follow on the wip

 

[rdesign]

just logged me out as i was just finished the post grrrr

I did describe more but it got lost any questions just ask