Converting Rough sawn boards by hand - Try Plane ?

[paulc]

Hello Forum,
Since beginning working with wood I've been truing up all the roughsawn boards I buy with a small stanley smoothing plane and loosing much bodyweight in the process as well as sometimes damaging the plane blade.

I can't afford or accomodate a planer thicknesser, so what hand plane do I need , Is it a try plane ? if so , what size would be best and what make would you recommend? Also can the blades be sharpened on a average size waterstone (2 inches or so wide) or do I need to get a bigger one ?

Just tidied garden shed/ workshop for first time , a lung full of dust ,but for the extra room , all of a half a foot all round , it was worth it.

Advice much appreciated as always, thanks a million.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Paul,

I don't have a planer so I'm in the same position as you If the boards are very rough, it's sometimes best to go over them first with a scrub plane - example here http://www.brimarc.com/home.php3?page=p ... c=C_106_39 These planes have a radiused blade that very quickly and aggressively removes wood. This will quickly, albeit roughly, bring the boards to a more presentable state. If you don't want to go to the expense of buying a scrub plane, it's possible to modify old wood or metal planes to turn them into a scrub plane. I use a modified metal plane that Alf converted and I bought from her - it works really well.

You can then use a normal plane. I prefer longer planes - #6 or #7 - but others have different preferences.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS Alf's review here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5336 will give you a good idea of how scrub planes work.

 

[MikeW]

... so what hand plane do I need , Is it a try plane ? if so , what size would be best and what make would you recommend?

If you can borrow a copy of Cosman's Rough to Ready DVD, or Schwarz's Coarse, Medium, Fine DVD, watching them would pay off well. It's one thing to make recommendations, another to watch them in action.

Not always convenient, though. Perhaps a lending library of sorts would be possible here one day?

Ok. Here's how I do it--when I do so totally by hand.

First, I cut all board to rough lengths and widths. This cuts down on how much work is involved.

I then make a judgement on which side will eventually be the viewed side, the show face. This may change, but for now I mark an arrow on the end of the board pointing to that face. And I place this side down on the bench.

If a board is in poor shape, I start with what would be called a Jr. Jack--about 12" in length. Until very recently, I had a Stanley #5 1/4 I had converted. Worked well. This Jr. Jack is simply a narrow Jack plane I cut down in length to about 12". It has a very open mouth and a heavily cambered blade.

I remove all the obvious high spots. Typically the plane is moving at a diagonal across the face of a board, to straight across. I remove obvious high spots before even pulling out the winding sticks--which half the time is simply two planes laid on the sides. Most often I have one at an end of the board which sits fairly flat on the bench. I often will mark spots with a crayon as I move one of the planes towards the other. Then I remove those high spots.

I'll flip the board over and check how it sits on the bench--does it rock, can I see more high/low spots? If so, I raise it and mark those spots. Then I flatten some more until it sits without movement when flipped onto the side I am flattening.

Then the next plane I typically use is what would be called a foreplane. Less camber. More lengthwise planing. Once that has worked its magic, then I either use what would be called a try or jointer plane, depending on the length of the board. If it is short enough, I may just use a foreplane which has even less camber to "pre-smooth" this surface.

From there, I leave that side alone and flip the board. I either gauge a line around the board using the lowest spot I find as the line I will flatten the second side to.

Once it is in the same shape as the first side, I decide which will really be the "show" side. That side I will use a smoother on. The other side I will also use a smoother on, but I am not trying to make it really fine.

... Also can the blades be sharpened on a average size waterstone (2 inches or so wide) or do I need to get a bigger one ?

That size stone should work for nearly any plane blade. If you encounter a wider blade, consider sharpening with the blade turned sideways to the stone, moving the blade lengthwise. You can sharpen nearly any width blade on nearly any stone this way.

Take care, Mike

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

If you can borrow a copy of Cosman's Rough to Ready DVD, or Schwarz's Coarse, Medium, Fine DVD, watching them would pay off well. It's one thing to make recommendations, another to watch them in action.

While these would also be my first port of call, you are welcome to read my tutorial on scrub plane use:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVScrubPlane/index.asp

Mike wrote:

Until very recently, I had a Stanley #5 1/4 I had converted.

You mean this one, for which I am the current curator?

Incidentally, here it is next to the LV Scrub plane - same size:

Paul, once you have sorted out a scrub (and, as you can see from the above, you can either convert or purchase a plane), then move on to a jointer plane. Here is a comparison of the Stanley #7 and LV BU Jointer - different strokes for different folks!

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVBevelUpJointer/index.asp

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Philly]

Some great advice there, Paul!
I have a wooden jack plane that I bought at a car boot sale for the princely sum of £1. I use this to remove the majority of the waste before using my other planes to flatten and smooth it. By having a heavily cambered blade you can quickly knock a board into shape.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

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[woodbloke]

Like Philly, I'd go for a 2" wooden jack plane as first weapon of choice as they're cheap as chips (ghastly expression) to buy and once sharp and correctly set up they are very effective - Rob

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

5 1/2 Jack plane without a doubt. It was the "industrial standard" for this sort of work. Wouldn't bother with the fashionable "scrub" plane unless you are talking about very rough riven stuff - in which case you might think of an adze.

Jacob

While I may appear to be contradicting my earlier post, I do agree with your recommendation of a #5 1/2. This is certainly a Jack of all Trades and is at home as a scrub (I use one with a 3" radius edge for flattening really hard woods (its momentum is a wonderful thing), to jointing short boards (with a straight bevel edge), and some use it as a smoother. It does offer the biggest bang for a buck. For a rough sawn board all one needs is a moderately cambered blade. However, a true scrub plane is still an easier plane to use if the board is very misshapen, where you quickly want to remove a lot of waste. Some prefer a scrubs lightness, as I do when working with softer wood.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Anonymous]

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[Paul Chapman]

Some great advice there, Paul!

Well it would be - I learned it from you

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Colin C]

Derek
Yes I can see the sense of scrub planes but I always feel a bit doubtful about them. Mainly cos I'd never even heard of one until I joined this forum, and they are not mentioned in any of my books ancient or modern. Adze gets mentioned often.
No doubt if I had one I'd use it - if I had an adze I'd have a go with that too, and their functions appear to be similar.

cheers
Jacob

Hi Mr G

I have seen the back of antique furniture that has been taken down with a scrub plane and left rough.
I am not shore how long there here been used but they are not a new thing

I have found that it is used more by people working on old furniture, like me :wink:

 

[bugbear]

...I'd never even heard of one[scrub plane] until I joined this forum, and they are not mentioned in any of my books ancient or modern. Adze gets mentioned often.

You won't see the name "scrub plane", but try looking in your books for "bismark" or "coarse jack" or "roughing jack".

You may be surprised

BugBear (who's seen some splendid round bottomed cuts on the backs of old wardrobe at auction)

 

[Anonymous]

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[bugbear]

You are right; Joyce p.27 in "Miscellaneous planes" "for occasional use" "scrub-, rougher-, or Bismarck-plane". I hadn't spotted it. Not in a lot of other books though.
I wasn't thinking it was new but rather that it was a revival, and that perhaps the adze was more generally used for very rough stuff, followed by a jack.

As discussed in various forums, (with various degrees of heat), it appears that prior to 1920 the name "scrub plane" was not commonly used.

However, there were planes with gaping mouths and thick, heavily cambered blades, which went under various names, mostly including the word "jack".

There was (and in the modern era, is again) a whole spectrum of planes called "jack".

In the recent-modern era, we think of a jack as equivalent to a Bailey #5, and thus mis-interpret the older texts.

Some of the illustrations for the amount of camber on a "jack" blade in the 1900-1920's books are extreme by today's standards - probably full 1/8", revealing the usage of the tool.

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul C

My prefernce is for a "scrub" type plane for taking down rough board's fast (useful for getting a spot of kindleing too a couple of hanful's of oak scrubbings soon gets the woodburner going!!)
I use a 14 inch jack with a cambered blade, its astonishing how fast and efficient it work's. Afterwards I use other 14 inch jack's with blades set to coarse, medium and fine cut's to refine my surface. I use the method similar to others have mentioned, get a good face side, then plane a good face edge at 90 degree's to it, then use the marking guage to scribe the desired width of the board from the face edge, plane to that line, them scribe the thickness of the board from the face side and plane to that.
I once had a baby little scrubbing plane was only about 5 inches long, but was spot on for doing chair seat blanks. Whatever plane you get try to get a thick blade in it with an applied finer quality steel to the edge.

Jacob I think the carpenter's axe is an under rated tool. I tend to get the feeling that traditionally the axe (side axe) and draw knifes (straight or curved) were used more frequently than an adze for roughing timbers (smallish ones at any rate). I may be wrong but I thought the adze was more used on large beams/balks etc eg house framers, boat builders, millwright's (have you seen that painting of constables boat builders on the stour?) One thing puzzles me why did they bother putting an adzed finish at all?? when you think of the extra time what benefit did it have??

 

[paulc]

Thanks for all the advice,

As it happens when I first started this hobby a neighbour gave me an old wooden plane , its quite small - about 8 inches in length . its blade is somewat rusted -and not that thick- but it does have quite a large mouth, Could this be converted into a scrub plane ? Would I have to buy a grinder to shape the blade? or could I buy just the scrub blade and fit it.

Money is tight so I don't know if my third plane (have smoothing and block) should be a new scrub plane, and if not, what should be the next, a 5, 6, or 7?

Thanks again , woodwork is not the easiest thing to teach yourself , and this forum definitely outclasses the only woodwork class I ever took.

 

[Chris Knight]

Paul,

Just put a heavy camber on the blade and it should be fine. I modified a small smoother like this and it takes very thick, narrow shavings that soon get the thickness of a board reduced.

 

[Paul Chapman]

its blade is somewat rusted

For scrub plane work the blade doesn't have to be in tip-top condition like it does on a normal plane. Clean the rust off and it will probably be OK. The blade on mine is a bit pitted but it doesn't affect its performance as a scrub plane blade.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

Thanks for all the advice,

As it happens when I first started this hobby a neighbour gave me an old wooden plane , its quite small - about 8 inches in length . its blade is somewat rusted -and not that thick- but it does have quite a large mouth, Could this be converted into a scrub plane ?

Sounds like a coffin bodied smoother. It can be made into a scrub plane, but doing "scrub work" without a good comfortable handle is apt to generate blisters.

DAMHIKT

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... 90#message

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

I use a 14 inch jack with a cambered blade, its astonishing how fast and efficient it work's. Afterwards I use other 14 inch jack's with blades set to coarse, medium and fine cut's to refine my surface.

Do these "other jacks" vary merely in depth of cut, or do they have differing degrees of camber as well?

BugBear