Combination, Plough/Plow, Rebate Planes

[Tierney]

For some reason (i.e. the slope), I'm thinking of buying a combination, plough or rebate plane. I'm a bit confused and was wondering if a combination plane did the job of both a plough and rebate plane, or was there much merit in having separate tools. I have my eye on an LN skew mouth rebate plane anyway, so would it be better buying a plough plane in addition to that.

I have seen some Stanley (No. 50s) and Record combination planes for sale and was wondering if there was anything I should know before buying one.

Although I'm happy to pay for the LN, the combination or plough plane is just something to fiddle around with, so didn't want to spend say any more than £50.

All responses appreciated.

DT

 

[Alf]

I have my eye on an LN skew mouth rebate plane...

The LN skew block? Or did you mean the LV skew rebate? (Curse them for having such similar initials) 'Cos for proper rebate work you'll really want something with a depth stop like the latter, or you'll go nuts. Not to mention the difficulty in holding a skew block in deeper rebates.

And yes, a combination plane will both plough and rebate. And dado, T&G, mould, etc, depending on the model. Mind you a plough can rebate too, see? But for maximum cross-grain enjoyment, a skew blade is nice to have, which in combis limits one rather to the Stanley #46, and they ain't cheap. So despite my abiding love of the combination plane, I'd have to opt for skew rebate and separate plough for most efficient and pleasant set up. But of course you could probably get a light combination plane within your budget and have the ploughing with the added advantage of the combination features like beading and T&G. Then it's just a long and steep descent until you start looking wistfully at Howkins planes on da Bay.... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[bodgermatic]

I succumbed to the lure of the boat anchor, last week a Record 050 was handed me by the long suffering postman. Not had a chance to play with it yet (it's notionally my Christmas present).

 

[Saint Simon]

I bought the LV skew rebate some months ago and it performs well both with and across the grain. Having previously failed with earlier rebate planes I am really pleased with it, especially the way it worked straight from the box. More recently, after taking guidance from this site, I bought a Stanley 55 for making mouldings. A few weeks on I am getting to know and love it, with the help of the Cornish Workshop website, and have successfully produced some small quantities of mouldings for cabinet work. However, I am not sure that I would choose to use it for simple ploughing. I have a Veritas small plough plane that I use for fitting drawer bottoms and the like which is very quick to set up and a doddle to use.
I think that the problem for you will be deciding what you most need the plane to do and what you can get for your money.

 

[xy mosian]

I succumbed to the lure of the boat anchor, last week a Record 050 was handed me by the long suffering postman. Not had a chance to play with it yet (it's notionally my Christmas present).

I bought a Record 050 (cobination) when it was new at £8-60. Unfortunately I didn't get on with it at all and that rather put me off. Last week I decided to give it another go. What a delight! A 4mm groove 6mm deep in the centre of a 12mm edge in some pine or other. Not once but twice over a total of about 6ft. The finish was much better than I could have managed with a router, and easier to set up, quieter etc..

Now in words similar to Mark Twain, " I am amazed how much it has improved over the last 30 odd years"


I had similar brilliant results from a Stanley #78 (rebate) which I had been given a couple of months ago by the original buyer, who bought it in the fifties. It had not even been sharpened.

xy

 

[wizer]

With hand planes, when ploughing grooves (dadoes) cross grain, divisions of a jewelery box for example, how would you reference an edge? By using a clamped straight edge or the integral 'fence'?

 

[xy mosian]

Wizer,

Personally I think the further I am working from an attached, outrigger fence, the more likely I am to make a hash of keeping it tight to the workpiece. This is probably related to the length of the fence in ratio to the distance I am working at. For that reason I would use a locally clamped straight edge.

BTW is it still on for later this week? If so all the best mate .

xy

 

[wizer]

BTW is it still on for later this week? If so all the best mate .

Yep :-$ :wink:

 

[Tierney]

After reading the replies and links (thanks), I'm leaning towards the Stanley 55 or Record 405 with the greater number of cutters, although the blood and gore sight slates the Stanley 55. Oh well some searching of eBay and saving ahead of me.

Alf,

Some great links thanks, I meant the LN Skew Block plane; but, may reconsider the LV now.

Cheers,

DT

 

[Saint Simon]

When I was asking about combination planes Paul Chapman got to the heart of the issue by pointing out that only the Stanley 55 with its adjustable runner can produce asymmetric profiles,eg roman and reverse ogees. That decided it for me.

 

[Paul Chapman]

There are significant differences between the Record #405/Stanley #45 Multiplanes and the Stanley #55 Universal plane.

Here's a Stanley #45

and here's a Stanley #55

The main difference is that the Stanley #55 has a skate which can move up and down as well as in and out. It has this so that it can use a wider range of cutters, particularly ones that are asymetric. Here's a picture showing an asymetric cutter and the moveable skate adjusted accordingly

You will see that there is also a short central skate that can also move up and down and provide further bearing on the wood.

While this feature gives the #55 a lot more versatility than the #45/405 it does make it more of a fiddle to set up. These are the cutters that come with the #55 (if you find one that is complete)

For straight forward grooving and beading, the #45/405 are probably a lot quicker and easier to use because they are easier to set up but, of course, they are more limited. What would be best would depend on what sort of work you want to do.

For rebating, a proper rebate plane would be best IMHO and if you were to try out a Veritas skew rebate nothing else would do :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Alf]

With hand planes, when ploughing grooves (dadoes) cross grain, divisions of a jewelery box for example, how would you reference an edge? By using a clamped straight edge or the integral 'fence'?

Wizer, the straight edge every time.

Ah, the #55. You will need a) Patience, and b) Luck. It's a plane I always wanted, and then acquired one, all shiny and like new. And it was shiny and like new because this particular example was unuseable. Just so as you know what you might like to watch out for if you can see it before you buy it, have some old blog entries:
Rocking Chair
Black Spot
Misunderstood (A more positive post)
Boat Anchor
Unfortunately, before I could get back to it, I hit a period of no workshop time, so it awaits me still with goodness knows what other obstacles to put in my path. But when it worked, it worked very well.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Good post, Alf :wink: With the #55, more than any other plane, it's advisable to try before you buy.........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[wizer]

Thanks for that Al. I'm tempted by a LV Skew Rabbet actually. I've never had much luck with routers and it looks easier with the LV SR.

 

[Modernist]

Thanks for that Al. I'm tempted by a LV Skew Rabbet actually. I've never had much luck with routers and it looks easier with the LV SR.

The LV Skew rabbet is a great plane but still not perfect. As well as my moans about A2 on the other side (now cured with a 35 deg bevel) I think the blade adjusting tab washer, for want of a better term, needs re-designing so that it does not fall out of register with the blade whilst adjusting. Having said that it still one of the best planes of all time and it is such a pleasure to use I have managed to put the router out of business much more than I thought. I just love to see shavings singing out of the skew mouth in a spiral (all right helix then :roll: ) without binding up. The general quality of manufacture is great. I'm still not wholly convinved about LV handle angle but I suppose that's personal.

 

[Alf]

I'm still not wholly convinved about LV handle angle but I suppose that's personal.

It's what they tell me. A lot. :lol: As for A2, obviously I'll have to get back on my hobby horse about that - didn't realise the skew rebates weren't offered with O1. Tsk.

Cheers, Alf

 

[mahking51]

Alf

Then it's just a long and steep descent until you start looking wistfully at Howkins planes on da Bay....

Ah, the Howkins! Its helped me with my alphabet: A (No49), B, C....................D.....
:lol:
Martin

 

[wizer]

hrm boredom had me looking into these planes earlier. I can't personally see a use for the LV Rabbet, it's something that it pretty easy with a router table (god forbid). I do see a use for making grooves with a hand plane but they all seem to suck at going cross grain and are no good for stopped grooves. Is that right?

 

[Anonymous]

hrm boredom had me looking into these planes earlier. I can't personally see a use for the LV Rabbet, it's something that it pretty easy with a router table (god forbid). I do see a use for making grooves with a hand plane but they all seem to suck at going cross grain and are no good for stopped grooves. Is that right?

Wizer, try one!

Love mine

I used the LV plough on Classic Hand Tools' stand yesterday - mine arrives with 5 blades Wednesday (sold out by midday Wednesday )
Thanks for the great discount Mike, nice chatting again.

Of course, the Record #50 stays, but I think that'll be used for beading rather than trenches as I much prefer the LV

 

[wizer]

Yes I will. Hopefully someone will bring one to the YOKB