Climate change policy

[selectortone]

It seems to me that altruism comes to the fore most often when most needed.

Yesterday I was doing my modest Xmas shop at Tesco. The aisles were packed with glazed-eyed women with heaving kingsize trolleys giving no quarter to a 73-year old with a basket. The shelves looked like they had been under attack by zombies. The car park was like Armageddon. That's just Xmas shopping. Tell me about altruism a week after a nuclear attack.

 

[selectortone]

You been reading the Torygraph?

You know I don't read the Telegraph.

 

[woodieallen]

Luck of the draw. Depends on a host of factors - patronage or parental wealth being a major one, irrespective of any ability.
Given a level playing field then talent can more readily rise to "higher" positions. Hence the enthusiasm amongst the upper clarses for hanging on to unequal opportunities, such as private schooling.

Oh FFS, Jacob, give it a break. Where do you get off on saying it’s the upper clarses (sic) who hang on to unequal opportunities? Many folk who decide their children would benefit from private education are most definitely not ‘Upper Clarse’

It’s your continual narrow minded bigotry that doesn’t win you any friends.

 

[Vulcan]

At the end of the day to make something move requires energy, ICE uses fossil fuels and EV's use power generated somewhere else so unless that source of power is solar or wind then it has just created pollution elsewhere.

When I looked the other day only 14% of the electricity consumed in the UK was Fossil Fuel (Gas) the rest was mostly Wind plus Nuclear and some Solar. Far better though to have that 14% pollution away from ground level in our towns and cities to be breathed in by the public?

Ev's tend to be heavier so will consume tyres and road surfaces more.

They do but that’s changing. Actually, if you look at a well designed car like a Tesla Model 3 you’ll see it weighs about the same as a comparable size Mercedes or BMW. In fact it can be a few pounds less than some Diesel models. EV’s like Tesla’s also produce much less brake dust (also a problem) than ICE vehicles due to regeneration.

Of course nobody ever complained about big heavy polluting cars like Range Rovers causing road damage and tyre pollution. I read a while ago than in spite of tighter emission regulations in Europe, pollution actually went up due to both cars and engines getting bigger and heavier.

 

[Spectric]

plus Nuclear

Not green .

 

[paulrbarnard]

Not green .

From a greenhouse gas and climate change perspective it is.

 

[DrPhill]

plus Nuclear

Not green .

Ooooh, now that is a big debate. One that I image will stress the various elements in the green movement.

Nuclear replaces a lot of CO2 emissions (which is a good thing) but the way we use nuclear it produces a lot of long-lived radioactive pollution (which is a bad thing). I don't think many greens would disagree with this. Where the debate lies is in the relative merits of the pros and cons.

There are theoretically better means of using nuclear energy - thorium reactor for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

Traditionally unfavourable since it produces far less high-level nuclear waste and cannot be used to generate fissile material for bombs. In fact, once running, a thorium reactor can convert bomb-making materials, and a lot of other high level nuclear waste, to energy and low-level nuclear waste. There are some disadvantages too (especially if you want to make nuclear bombs). The wikipedia article would be an excellent starting place to learn about the pros and cons.

 

[ey_tony]

Luck of the draw. Depends on a host of factors - patronage or parental wealth being a major one, irrespective of any ability.
Given a level playing field then talent can more readily rise to "higher" positions. Hence the enthusiasm amongst the upper clarses for hanging on to unequal opportunities, such as private schooling.

The only social classes these days seem to exist in the minds of bigoted & extreme socialists! The playing fields have never been so level as they are these days and to claim otherwise is nonsense.

In any case why do you suppose private schooling gives such an advantage to children of parents who pay for their children's education?
From what I can gather, the education in both the state and private schools is largely the same so there must be something else which you claim arguably benefits the private school attendee!

Could it be an admission that the primarily socialist equal opportunities state education system we have in place has actually failed and not fit for purpose or that the education of the young in private schooling extends beyond mere academic activities which better prepares the children of private education for real life beyond the schools they attend?

Once there were definitive Upper, Middle and Working classes but with the exception of a tiny minority today who would fit into the upper-class bracket, the vast middle and working classes have merged into a single socio-group which identify as working class and the playing fields have never been more level. The only people who seem unable to let go of the social class struggles are the left wing dinosaurs.

 

[Chris152]

From what I can gather, the education in both the state and private schools is largely the same so there must be something else which you claim arguably benefits the private school attendee!

That'll be news to many parents who send their kids to private schools.

As for the classless society you describe, I think you're wrong - rather, class structures are more complex. But they're still very much there.

 

[DrPhill]

The only social classes these days seem to exist in the minds of bigoted & extreme socialists!

I think that you are wrong. Here is a starter article where you can start your education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Spectric]

From a greenhouse gas and climate change perspective it is.

It may not produce any greenhouse gasses but it certainly warms up the oceans if they are used as part of the cooling, ie Hinkley and many others.

Ooooh, now that is a big debate. One that I image will stress the various elements in the green movement.

Yes when you think of the construction phase that uses thousands of tonnes of steel and concrete then that has to be taken into consideration and there are many other aspects that put dents in any green credentials.

 

[DrPhill]

It may not produce any greenhouse gasses but it certainly warms up the oceans if they are used as part of the cooling, ie Hinkley and many others.


Yes when you think of the construction phase that uses thousands of tonnes of steel and concrete then that has to be taken into consideration and there are many other aspects that put dents in any green credentials.

I am not sure the amount of heat released into the oceans is significant in the grand scheme of things- orders of magnitude smaller than the effect of trapped greenhouse gasses.

But I have sympathy for your second point. Nuclear plants are major constructs, with environmental costs and legacies. I think Thorium reactors are better on both these points. But it is a debate that needs to be broadened to include 'why do we need so much cheap energy?'. We want it cheap so we can waste it (how else do 'patio heaters' seem such a good idea?). Insulating all the buildings in the UK will go along way to reducing our energy imports. Having EVs that do not weigh as much as a challenger tank would as well. Why do we need 50" televisions? AI is another energy guzzler - for very little real gain. I am sure you can think of many other ways to reduce our energy profligacy.

 

[Chris152]

I think that you are wrong. Here is a starter article where you can start your education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom

Nice article - saw this, relevant to the broader forum, maybe:

Precariat​

The precariat, about 15% of British society, shows poor economic capital, and the lowest scores on every other criterion. Although some members of this class are unemployed, many hold jobs.[43] Members of this class include about 6% of all cleaners, 5% of all van drivers, 4% of all care workers, *** 4% of all carpenters and joiners ***, 3% of all caretakers, 3% of all leisure and travel service occupations, 3% of all shopkeepers and proprietors, and 2% of all retail cashiers.

 

[Jameshow]

Appalling nonsense.
Homosapiens* could not have survived without cooperation and action in groups, all working for the common good.
It's fundamental to human nature and how most people live most of the time.
What you describe is aberrant behaviour, which unfortunately may sometimes lead to the enrichment of the few but always at great cost to the many.
The ones who do enrich themselves at everybody elses expense tend to convince themselves that they are getting what they deserve through personal ability, but it is a delusion and they find themselves living in an unstable society and may even come to a sticky end.
It's nothing to do with altruism or elevated moral standards, it's normal intelligent animal pack behaviour; "one for all, all for one".
*spell checker doesn't allow homosapiens spelt normally with a space.

You must have different glasses to me!

There are rich and poor across the world in every nation. In every generation you have rich and poor - industrial, pre industrial, Roman or Egyptian empires

The poor you can with you always ..


Altruism is the exception tbh...

 

[AJB Temple]

People tend to talk about the state & private school sectors as if it is binary. Far from it. Both have a scale of excellence to rubbish, & they overlap. Parents ambitious for their kids will seek out the best state schools, usually grammars or equivalent & these frequently outperform the private sector, especially if single sex. They usually employ the deeply unfair horror of trying to identify the brightest kids.

All smart parents want the best education for their children. Most people are capable of understanding that parents who send their children to private schools are subsiding the state sector by paying for a place & not using it.

Most of the class system stuff is nonsense. Ambitious people are undeterred by this.

 

[Vulcan]

People tend to talk about the state & private school sectors as if it is binary. Far from it. Both have a scale of excellence to rubbish, & they overlap. Parents ambitious for their kids will seek out the best state schools, usually grammars or equivalent & these frequently outperform the private sector, especially if single sex. They usually employ the deeply unfair horror of trying to identify the brightest kids.

All smart parents want the best education for their children. Most people are capable of understanding that parents who send their children to private schools are subsiding the state sector by paying for a place & not using it.

Most of the class system stuff is nonsense. Ambitious people are undeterred by this.

I don’t think you meant that. Or if J***b was quoting you “Don’t talk b******s you raving nutter” !

 

[Jacob]

.....

All smart parents want the best education for their children. Most people are capable of understanding that parents who send their children to private schools are subsiding the state sector by paying for a place & not using it.

We are so grateful!
Yes and the better off pay for private health care in order to relieve the public sector.
Or shop in Harrods to avoid getting in our way as we wander desperately around Aldi.
Or holiday in far away places in order not to overcrowd the beach in Skegness.
.......a very silly list possible here!
Drive around in BMWs in order to leave cycle lanes less crowded?
Any more suggestions anybody?

Most of the class system stuff is nonsense. Ambitious people are undeterred by this.

And untalented people with wealth and privilege are elevated into positions of power and responsibility far beyond their intellects and ability. Johnson, Cameron, Fartrage spring to mind. Another list of complete s**theads possible here!

 

[woodieallen]

That'll be news to many parents who send their kids to private schools.

As for the classless society you describe, I think you're wrong - rather, class structures are more complex. But they're still very much there.

Really ? Care to enlighten us ? Maybe you're confusing political viewpoints with what most of us would consider 'class'.

 

[woodieallen]

I think that you are wrong. Here is a starter article where you can start your education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom

You're missing the point. Again. But I'm not surprised given your bias. I looked very hard to try and find Jacob's beloved 'Upper class'. Not there.
And the term 'class' was in the context of parents sending their children to Private School. Find me a chart that maps those who send their children to Private School vs your so-called 'classes'.

 

[Chris152]

Really ? Care to enlighten us ? Maybe you're confusing political viewpoints with what most of us would consider 'class'.

I don't understand what you've written.