Have repaired a lot of clocks, although watches are really my thing. Looking at the pictures I am a little confused by the silver coloured rod on the pendulum. The upper end doesn't appear to be connected to anything? The first thing to check is if power is coming through the train. Assuming it is wound up, a few turns is quite sufficient, then look at the escape wheel, at the very top of your picture. To the right is the pallet fork, with pins that engage with the escape wheel teeth. If you move the fork to and fro, or in this case up and down, then the escape wheel should turn under power of the spring as each tooth is released. If it doesn't then the best bet will probably be to strip the whole thing down. If it does have power but you just can't get it to run, then it will most likely be a timing issue. This is where the fork is misaligned so it doesn't line up correctly with the escape wheel, and is referred to as being out of beat, or having excessive beat error. If you gently move the fork by hand you will see that each pin will release the escape by one tooth at a time. With the pendulum swinging it should move so as to release a tooth on the escape wheel with each swing up and down. If this action is not even then the fork needs to be moved relative to the wheel. Generally they are a friction fit and can be moved on the shaft to get the position correct. Some are held to the shaft by a screw. in some cases, and I suspect this is one as you don't have a hanger at the top of the rod, you may also need to subtly bend the pendulum rod to get it in beat. You can Google something like how to get your clock in beat. Bear in mind that with a pendulum clock the beat will be altered by the alignment of the whole movement. So if you set it up perfectly level, then put the clock on a shelf that is not level it will either stop altogether, or run erratically.
Cleaning old dirty brass clock movement
- Thread starter quintain
- Start date
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Just a thought, might be worth consulting West Dean College in West Sussex. They still run clock making/restoration courses (expensive!) but might be willing to comment on your movement. The college is on the same estate as the "Repair Shop" and the Weald & Downland open air museum.
If there is no power coming through the train then check the spring. It looks to be fully wound, and they can bind if wound too far. To release it you need to look at the front of the movement where there will be a pawl and ratchet on the end of the shaft. Use the key to tension the spring as though you were winding it up, just enough to be able to release the pawl. Now allow the spring to unwind, controlling it with the key. It will be quite powerful so you may have to take it half a turn at a time, letting the ratchet 're engage to hold it each time. When you have unwound it about half way try the train again. Remove the pendulum and silver rod, then just nudge the brass rod that leads down towards the pendulum to and fro. If all is well the escape wheel should click round as the rod swings to and fro. If it doesn't then I would be tempted to put the whole movement intact into a cleaning solution. Horolene is good, but expensive for a one off. For initial cleaning of very dirty movements I use Coleman liquid fuel. You can get this at Go Outdoors or any decent camping shop. It is basically highly refined petrol. Whatever you use I would rinse it afterwards with pure alcohol. An ultrasound bath is good but you can make a reasonable job of it without. Before cleaning I would fully release the spring, same procedure as above but just keep going until there is no tension left in it. Once it's nice and clean then get some proper clock oil, e bay have loads of sellers or you can go to Cousins watch parts. You want a very small drop of oil on each shaft pivot. Now wind it up a bit and see if you have power coming through. If you still haven't then there is something more seriously wrong and you will have to fully strip it down. Assuming you have power coming through then you need to sort out the upper pivot point for the silver pendulum rod, can't see from your pictures where that is supposed to go. The brass rod appears to be soldered directly to the fork, so it will be a case of bending it as appropriate so that as the pendulum swings to and fro the brass rod moves the fork up and down evenly to release the teeth on the escape wheel. Correcting it for running fast or slow is accomplished by moving the bob weight up or down the rod, usually by means of a threaded but which I think I can just see peeping out under your pendulum weight. Good luck.
Tris
What am I doing here?
If you have no luck this might be of interest and is about half the price of a clean and oil at our nearest clock shop.
https://hobby.uk.com/8-day-spring-movement.html
https://hobby.uk.com/8-day-spring-movement.html
quintain
Established Member
Hello again. and thank you all.
I attach 2 x additional pics which hopefully will more clearly explain the mechanism.
The movement works erratically 5mins-ish and stops sometimes 5 hrs-ish and stops.
Even upon applying my wonderful technical ability i.e. coffee, swear, shout at my wife; it just stops when it wishes.
Please do not downgrade me further than at present in your minds but I am in the process of safely soaking it in petrol with the further actions of letting it dry a little before very carefully applying v small & thin dot of sewing machine oil to every bush and a little more than a dab of oil to the (carefully unwound) spring, which I will rewind and unwind a number of times.
Question:
Within this post thread I am recommended to ask for help from a clock forum "I welcome advice from you on what is a good sensible well attended & helpful clock forum"
Again thank you all for your help and interest
Regards..Richard
I attach 2 x additional pics which hopefully will more clearly explain the mechanism.
The movement works erratically 5mins-ish and stops sometimes 5 hrs-ish and stops.
Even upon applying my wonderful technical ability i.e. coffee, swear, shout at my wife; it just stops when it wishes.
Please do not downgrade me further than at present in your minds but I am in the process of safely soaking it in petrol with the further actions of letting it dry a little before very carefully applying v small & thin dot of sewing machine oil to every bush and a little more than a dab of oil to the (carefully unwound) spring, which I will rewind and unwind a number of times.
Question:
Within this post thread I am recommended to ask for help from a clock forum "I welcome advice from you on what is a good sensible well attended & helpful clock forum"
Again thank you all for your help and interest
Regards..Richard
Attachments
quintain
Established Member
Fergie 307 thank you for your fulsome replies.
I am following some of your advice, restricting myself to products I have immediately available.
I hope my immediately prior response shows you more clearly how the movement operates.
IF I can get the movement working I will purchase & use more appropriate substances; I appreciate that is a back to front work regime.
I will hopefully put it in the capable hands of someone who knows what they are doing, thereby allowing the clock case & original movement to be within our family group for another 100+ yrs
Again thank you and every one else.
Regards..Richard
Ah now I can see how its suspended! Couldnt see anything in the first images. I would still favour a timing issue, some are very sensitive, others less so. A good clean will certainly help. Wish I could be more helpful but its not a design I have seen before. I would pay particular attention to the escape wheel and ensure it spins freely. Not sure if its just the angle of the photo but looks to me as though the lower pin on the fork C is not straight? They both need to be perfectly perpendicular to the pallet fork. In the case of it being only slightly off you can usually tease it back into line using a suitable sized pair of smooth jaw pliers, be very gentle with it. If they are not correct you will never get it to run reliably. I am guessing that when it does stop it is always with the fork in the same place, either up or down, often a good clue that there is an issue with the pins. If this is the case then looking closely at it when stopped will tell you if there is a problem with one of the pins. They usually stop when one pin fails to disengage from the wheel. Either because it is bent, or the timing needs adjusting as previously explained. When it is running look carefully at how each pin engages with the escape wheel. They should both engage to the same depth relative to the tooth. If one engages more than the other then check its not bent, and if not then adjust the position of the fork to get it even. Some are really sensitive and finding the sweet spot can be quite time consuming. Just doing an 1880's Waterbury carriage clock which has a similar problem, in that one of the pins is actually loose, so it runs for a bit, then the pin moves and it stops. Like I say, could just be the angle of the picture.
quintain
Established Member
Thanks to everyone; this is a magnificent & knowledgeable bunch of people who are always willing to help.
My grandads mechanical clock movement is now working; 48 hours and counting, no pun intended.
Procedure:
Ask for help on UKWORKSHOP Forum
Listen, consider then use new knowledge, combined with available tools and materials to hand.
1. soaked for 1 1/2 days in petrol
2. drained for couple of hours
3. dried using my wife's home visiting hairdressers hairdryer
4. very - very small dabs of sewing machine oil onto pivots NOT onto any cogs
4.4. bit more than small dabs of oil on unwound spring
4.5. wound - unwound spring 3 or 4 times
4.6. unwinding ( and rewinding) carried out using home and simply made safe key holder
5. coffee - concern - hope and started the pendulum swinging
6. 2 days swinging (sounds good and youngish) and still going
7. ordered 15 m/l with precision nozzle of clock oil £2.99 incl p/p from fleabay
8. will use clock oil on movement and let it run for at least 48 hours then put the clock back together and onto the mantle piece
Again thanks to all.
Regards
Richard
My grandads mechanical clock movement is now working; 48 hours and counting, no pun intended.
Procedure:
Ask for help on UKWORKSHOP Forum
Listen, consider then use new knowledge, combined with available tools and materials to hand.
1. soaked for 1 1/2 days in petrol
2. drained for couple of hours
3. dried using my wife's home visiting hairdressers hairdryer
4. very - very small dabs of sewing machine oil onto pivots NOT onto any cogs
4.4. bit more than small dabs of oil on unwound spring
4.5. wound - unwound spring 3 or 4 times
4.6. unwinding ( and rewinding) carried out using home and simply made safe key holder
5. coffee - concern - hope and started the pendulum swinging
6. 2 days swinging (sounds good and youngish) and still going
7. ordered 15 m/l with precision nozzle of clock oil £2.99 incl p/p from fleabay
8. will use clock oil on movement and let it run for at least 48 hours then put the clock back together and onto the mantle piece
Again thanks to all.
Regards
Richard
As opposed to the tears of the happy recipients, as their eyes glaze over remembering a lost loved one ?.
I know, I'm an unabashed cynic
bourbon
Established Member
nowt wrong with being a little bit cynical. But yes, they seem to have only three repairs over 50 minutes which gives them a better chance to showcase the repairs more.As opposed to the tears of the happy recipients, as their eyes glaze over remembering a lost loved one ?.
I know, I'm an unabashed cynic
Suffolk Brian
Established Member
Not withstanding the great advice on this thread, does anyone know or a “clockmakers “ group/forum/whatever for a beginner? I am just having a first go at making a skeleton clock, and all information would be appreciated. Especially on how to polish the various parts to get that mirror like finish.
thanks in anticipation.
thanks in anticipation.
quintain
Established Member
Received proper clock oil and carefully and ?? minusculey (is this a new word) applied it.
7++ days and still running.
Again thank you all.
Horolene is the go to stuff, but expensive and rather nasty stuff. For brass just get a mug full of clear vinegar in a saucepan, stainless not aluminium, add a bout three teaspoons of salt and heat gently to dissolve the salt. This mixture will remove tarnishing. You need to make sure the parts are free of oil first. I use Coleman fuel, obtainable from Go Outdoors etc. As to polishing, there is no shortcut. Just elbow grease, use Brasso or the Silvo wadding a soft toothbrush can be used for smaller parts. Once done a good wash in IPA,, that's alcohol rather than beer
Glad you got it going. I have done hundreds but the satisfaction when it starts ticking never wears off.
This is a not very good pic of the esvapement of the1890's Waterbury clock I am doing at the moment. Havent got a before shot but suffice to day it was pretty grotty. Here it has been cleaned as described earlier and is temporarily back on for adjustment.
