Chisels for a newbie

[TonyW]

Hello to all. I have been lurking around this site for a while now picking up lots of useful information and tips - thanks to all who post here.

After many years of rough / DIY work I am now interested in attempting more ambitious projects and have started work on building a beginners first bench and upgrading some of my tools to better quality models.

My current chisels are a cheap and nasty set of 3 probably picked up from the local £ shop - I am sure no one here would use such a set!!
After trying my hand at sharpening them they have an interesting range of multi bevels! I am looking to replace them with better quality set without spending too much until I become more proficient.

So far I am considering the following:
Bahco 424P or Irwin Marples M444. These are available as a set of three 12mm, 18mm and 25mm for around £30. To these I will probably add a 6mm.

Just a couple of questions
What do you think about the quality of the above?
Are there other alternatives around that price that I should be looking at?

I now intend to practice my grinding and honing techniques with my old chisels !

Thanks Tony

 

[ByronBlack]

I'll give my stock response:

If you can go to £50, the Kirschen (Two Cherry) chisel set from Axminster is one of the best chisel sets for the money in that price range and much better than the Bahco or Marples.

 

[mr]

My current chisels are a cheap and nasty set of 3 probably picked up from the local £ shop - I am sure no one here would use such a set!!
After trying my hand at sharpening them they have an interesting range of multi bevels! I am looking to replace them with better quality set without spending too much until I become more proficient.

(snip)

I now intend to practice my grinding and honing techniques with my old chisels !

Thanks Tony

Hi Tony

I have just such a set of cheapie chisels. Black plastic handle things from B&Q, perfect for abusing and wasting large lumps of wood quickly before moving onto the better bench chisels. They've ben belted from here to kingdom come with a range of mallets and hammers and keep coming back for more so dont discount those cheap chisels too soon. As to the multi bevel thing, the first thing you will want to do with your new chisels is sharpen them. So put the practice in on the cheapies before you do that or you will end up with two sets of multi bevelled chisels. Have you considered a sharpening guide?

Cheers Mike

 

[woodbloke]

For the price, the Two Cherries ticks the box and I would also recommend a honing guide in the shape of an Eclipse clone - Rob

 

[Adam]

I'll give my stock response:

If you can go to £50, the Kirschen (Two Cherry) chisel set from Axminster is one of the best chisel sets for the money in that price range and much better than the Bahco or Marples.

Or you can buy them individually - about £9 each. See here:

EDIT: Just noticed they aren't quite the same. I have the 1101 set, not the 1002's.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Kirs ... -22470.htm

Or you can get six for £54.95.

I use these chisels - and am quite pleased with them. Seem to stay nice and sharp - more than adequate for my level of woodworking.

adam

 

[TonyW]

Wow - Thanks for such quick replies.

After your comments I think that the Kirschen are a better option than my original pick. Interestingly when I looked at the cost of buying a set of 3 Kirschen it was not much more than the cost of either the Marples or Bahco.

So now I need to decide on either the Kirschen 1002 or 1101's. Not sure that I need 6 (yet!). I have been trying to find the difference between 1002 and 1101. As far as I can see it seems like it is just the handles and the fact that 1101 come as a set of 6.

Do you know if there is any difference in quality between the two?

As to my old cheap chisels, as suggested I will be keeping hold of them for rough work and also practice my sharpening skills - I am definitely going to get a honing guide.

Thanks again for your suggestions

Tony

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

If your going to go for the kirschens, then from what I have read the UNpolished versions are alot better.
these are available from http://www.fine-tools.com/stemmb.htm
It seems that the polishing rounds over the edges, which isnt the desired effect with the unbevelled side of a chisel

 

[Anonymous]

I just bought these http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -31355.htm
A bit cheap and cheerful - but they were flat, and ground nicely to about 25deg so were very quick and easy to hone. Nowt wrong with them except a bit unglamourous.

cheers
Jacob

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

how do the edges hold up on those axminster ones Jacob?

 

[greggy]

hi tonyw, i bought a set of marples, i know they are far from perfect, but after spending 3 hours + on the tormek ie sharpening, and making them flat and now looking like they were made from stainless steel, they are now just as good as the very best. but remember even new chisels need sharpening. oh and welcome to the forum.

 

[Amateurrestorer]

Ok Alf listen in! I have got a set of marple chisels ( the yellow and red ones that all the site chippies seem to have and they do a good job ,but , when it comes to keen edges I really must say that the mixed set I bought from The old tool shop in Doncaster take the biscuit. I spent a good hour chatting to Barry the owner about steel and quality and he told me that chisels with a square tang were all hand forged and if you rubbed the back of them lightly with a good file you could tell how hard the steel was. I spent a while choosing a harlequin set (mixed bunch) and when I got them home gave them a final hone(Barry always hollow grounds them ready for use) and they were shaving the hairs off the back of arm sharp.I have also bought Paring chisels off him with the same degree of quality. Average price £6 a chisel and £12 to £20 pounds for a parer. You can find them on the internet but it is worth the pilgrimage to see the shop. Alf ,you had better stay away if you don't want to slip further down the slope.

 

[Anonymous]

how do the edges hold up on those axminster ones Jacob?

OK so far but too soon to say really.
I just finished a chiselly job before I bought these - 3 sets of big bookshelves with stopped dovetails. Now on to a door and some windows with only a little hand chiselling involved. For me a few chisels are essential but don't actually get a lot of use. Mostly just paring the shoulders or cheeks of a few tenons when not machined spot on. Is that the same for most woodworkers? Who uses them a lot other than carvers or frequent dovetailers, and what for exactly?

cheers
Jacob

 

[woodbloke]

Mr G wrote:

Mostly just paring the shoulders or cheeks of a few tenons when not machined spot on

This is precisely what they are used for. The ability to precisely cut tenons on a machine is dubious, the nature of the cutting action is always across the grain which will never produce a truly clean edge. Even with a very sharp cutter a slightly woolly edge will always result. The way to obtain a true accurate and sharp edge is to knife the shoulder, machine or cut a fraction slightly away from the line and then pare back to the line with a razor sharp chisel or alternatively a well set up shoulder plane. With the sort of work that I like to do this is important, clearly not so to you - Rob

 

[Colin C]

These have also have good reviews and are in one of the woodwork mags at the moment.
Just to muddy the waters a little more

 

[CONGER]

For the record (pardon the pun), the relevant section of the Kirschen (two cherries!) catalog is here http://www.kirschen.de/_pdf/kirschen_stechbeitel.pdf

The calatlog is multi-lingual.

The difference between 1001 and 1101 is simply the packaging.

I have had mixed experiences with 2C chisels; the manufacturer sometimes slips up on QC, and they are not VERY sensitive to response from the customer base... I rate the chisels as reasonably OK.

-ger-

 

[David C]

The overpolished long edges which stop you getting sharp corners, are the main menace with 2Cs.

Joel has the unpolished sets which are infinitely preferable.

Are these available in UK?

I did not see them mentioned on Conger's pages?

David

 

[Anonymous]

These have also have good reviews and are in one of the woodwork mags at the moment.
Just to muddy the waters a little more

Look very similar to the axminster cheapoids, just a different coloured handle and a box for the higher price. I bet they are the same and probably Chinese

cheers
Jacob

 

[bugbear]

The overpolished long edges which stop you getting sharp corners, are the main menace with 2Cs.

Joel has the unpolished sets which are infinitely preferable.

Are these available in UK?

I did not see them mentioned on Conger's pages?

David

MooreToolsPlease gave a source closer to the UK than Joel - available TO the UK, more not IN the UK

http://www.fine-tools.com/stemmb.htm

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

Mr G wrote:

Mostly just paring the shoulders or cheeks of a few tenons when not machined spot on

This is precisely what they are used for. The ability to precisely cut tenons on a machine is dubious, the nature of the cutting action is always across the grain which will never produce a truly clean edge. Even with a very sharp cutter a slightly woolly edge will always result. The way to obtain a true accurate and sharp edge is to knife the shoulder, machine or cut a fraction slightly away from the line and then pare back to the line with a razor sharp chisel or alternatively a well set up shoulder plane. With the sort of work that I like to do this is important, clearly not so to you - Rob

No not for me - I'd have to treble my prices :shock:
Maybe you should try a little harder to get a good machine cut, it'd save you a vast amount of work by the sound of it. Seems a wasted opportunity if you are having to finish off machine cuts by hand.
I get a perfect cut over the top on a TS with a good many-toothed crosscut blade. Chisel comes in to use when there is the occasional innaccuracy - but sometimes a whole job goes through perfectly.
Oh and chisels come in to use for hinge housings, and a lot of nicking and trimming such as mitreing mouldings etc.

cheers
Jacob

 

[woodbloke]

Mr G wrote:

Maybe you should try a little harder to get a good machine cut

I am quite capable of cutting accurately straight off a machine as the following pics show. They are the bases for a large dining table I made when I was making stuff for Linley. The curved mouldings on the base were spindled out and then cut directly from the saw.....the saw in question tho' was a brand new panel saw costing over £10G, and my little Kity 419 is just not capable of that sort of accuracy.





The final pic is one of a dumb waiter, again all the circular mouldings were cut and fitted straight from the machine



I will add no further comment to this thread, 'cos frankly it ain't worth the effort, but as a parting thought, wouldn't it be nice to see some of your work posted on the forum - Rob