Chisel sharpening - do we have a beginner guide?

[D_W]

figured I'd call it pinning as that's what it is on a file. No clue what you'd really call it.

How many stones I use is somewhat dependent on tool hardness, but I'm making most of the tools I use now, so I can control that and choose.

As far as the very fine indias, I bought a sharpening stone lot from japan. I'm fairly sure that one of the stones is a brown vitrified stone about equivalent to a 6000-8000 grit finish stone (sort of an ultra ultra ultra fine india). Two of the other stones are ultrafine india stones (much finer than a fine india, more like 2000/3000 grit equivalent. Far better than anything of a waterstone type in that range.

Norton has a UF india part number, but I haven't seen one sold in years. Too bad. They could be used front and back and straight to autosol to polish off a burr and be in the neighborhood of a shapton 16k stone. In theory, I paid about $6 each for those stones from japan. Also included was a solid white alundum 8x3 stone called a "Barber oilstone". More or less a synthetic version of a trans ark. If I had anywhere to put stones from those gloms, I'd order more.

We sometimes hear from the gurus how advanced the new stones are, and to some extent, it's cheaper now to get closely graded alumina (but that doesn't seem to have translated into better stone prices). There are industrial things like seeded gel and other specialty aluminas put in even more expensive stones, and my understanding with most of them is that they decrease heat in power grinding. What's the point of that dumped into a sharpening stone? It's a waste.

Somewhere around 1900, the germans and some american companies made finely graded barber hones, as well as others more common with 1200FF abrasive. I've seen a few in 8x3 format that were marketed both for razor production (initial shaprening) and to woodworkers. Woodworkers and carpenters wanted nothing to do with them and few sold. When we hear about resin or synthetic stones being new, it's a bit of a barfer. No, professionals didn't think they were any better. They became popular when woodworking was turned over to amateurs.

 

[mikej460]

I was taught to sharpen with oilstones and my first project was to build a dovetailed oilstone box complete with a wooden block at each end. I was always taught to use a figure of eight movement across as much of the stone as possible and don't take the chisel off the stone.

 

[Rorton]

The wooden block is free floating, just a pressure fit, not glued in?

 

[Cabinetman]

It's OK as long as you don't lift it. Basically you hone fast and hard at 30º but with a slight bias towards dipping so that you are backing off the bevel at the same time. It's how everybody used to sharpen from the stone age until about 1980 (?) when they started think about it, getting confused and making it difficult. I'm not sure how the obsession with flat bevels came from. I guess it's the beginners' injunction to avoid "rounding over" and getting an ever steeper bevel. This has been misunderstood by a whole generation. What I (and the whole world) used to do, could be called "rounding under" if that'd help!Can't wait! I've heard of these mysterious "locked joints" but the nearest I've ever got is a touch of arthritis. Be careful!

The old adage about a picture and 1000 words would be apposite here Jacob, rounding over, rounding under, we need a diagram or two please.

 

[mikej460]

The wooden block is free floating, just a pressure fit, not glued in?

Pressure fit. I made two about 15 years ago and they are still going strong. Pressure fit allows you to use twin grit oilstones.

 

[Awac]

Just looking at idea of what others make for a box to store the stone, and noticed that people that use a honing guide, suggest putting some 1” blocks of wood at either end of the stone, flush with the top of the stone, this way the guides wheel can start to run on the block of wood and not the stone and then you can use the whole length of the stone.
seem like a good idea or just overkill?

I have always thought this was a clever idea for a guide, and keep promising myself that I will get around to making it.
Made by the Luther grinding company. I have one of their hand grinders which I have to restore...yes when I get time!

 

[Jacob]

I have always thought this was a clever idea for a guide, and keep promising myself that I will get around to making it.
Made by the Luther grinding company. I have one of their hand grinders which I have to restore...yes when I get time!

View attachment 100025

They are all clever ideas. Too clever. It's easier without them.
I thought the cleverest ever was the simple Stanley; Vintage Stanley Honing Guide 25 and 30 degrees bevel VGC | eBay
Only work with slotted blades but very easy and you can camber as well. It's a good 'training wheel' - a beginner soon gets the idea and finds he can manage without it.

 

[G S Haydon]

I think the usual material for oilstone boxes was whatever happened to be available. Cabinetmakers might find a nice piece of mahogany, shopfitters would have access to offcuts all sorts of choice timbers; teak would nice, being oily, but very hard to find these days.. Iroko should be as good as anything.

The end-grain inserts at the stone ends are something seen in quite a few vintage oilstone boxes. I think the logic is that a bit of a run-off at the ends of the stone allowed even a freehand sharpener a full stroke, allowing more even wear at the stone ends. It's not compulsory - more boxes don't have them than do - but it does show that bit extra care taken by someone taking pride in their kit.

A few years back, one of our occasional contributors, Graham Haydon (come back Graham - all is forgiven!), made a You-Tube video showing a simple oilstone set-up. He had two blocks of wood the same thickness as the stone screwed to a scrap of melamine-faced chipboard. One of the blocks was long enough to allow the honing guide a full run back off the stone; the other block just stopped the stone from sliding forward. Thus, he had long runway, stone, stop block. He could lift the stone out to wipe off surplus oil, which obviously the melamine helped with. Also screwed to the
melamine was a block set the right distance from the edge of the board to set the right projection of blade from honing guide, so he didn't have to measure each time. Just set blade edge against stop block, slide guide to touch board edge and tighten up. Very quick, once set up.

https://www.instructables.com/How-To-Sharpen-a-Chisel-Quickly-and-Easily/
No video though

 

[Rorton]

Thanks for the link, exactly what I needed.
Is it better to remove the stone from its wooden box to use it, or sharpen while it’s in its box, or doesn’t it really matter?

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for the link, exactly what I needed.
Is it better to remove the stone from its wooden box to use it, or sharpen while it’s in its box, or doesn’t it really matter?

Leave it in the box (Graham wasn't using one for his demo).
That's the whole idea - it catches the oil overflow and you wipe the stone after use while it's in the box, or tip it out and wipe the inside of the box too, if necessary. You make a box for each of your stones and they stay in it for life!

 

[Jacob]

I think the usual material for oilstone boxes was whatever happened to be available. Cabinetmakers might find a nice piece of mahogany, shopfitters would have access to offcuts all sorts of choice timbers; teak would nice, being oily, but very hard to find these days.. Iroko should be as good as anything.

The end-grain inserts at the stone ends are something seen in quite a few vintage oilstone boxes. I think the logic is that a bit of a run-off at the ends of the stone allowed even a freehand sharpener a full stroke, allowing more even wear at the stone ends. It's not compulsory - more boxes don't have them than do - but it does show that bit extra care taken by someone taking pride in their kit.

A few years back, one of our occasional contributors, Graham Haydon (come back Graham - all is forgiven!), made a You-Tube video showing a simple oilstone set-up. He had two blocks of wood the same thickness as the stone screwed to a scrap of melamine-faced chipboard. One of the blocks was long enough to allow the honing guide a full run back off the stone; the other block just stopped the stone from sliding forward. Thus, he had long runway, stone, stop block. He could lift the stone out to wipe off surplus oil, which obviously the melamine helped with. Also screwed to the melamine was a block set the right distance from the edge of the board to set the right projection of blade from honing guide, so he didn't have to measure each time. Just set blade edge against stop block, slide guide to touch board edge and tighten up. Very quick, once set up.

So that's another idea for an oilstone and honing guide set-up.

The end grain block is another bit of over thinking, the curse of modern sharpening.
Perhaps needed for jigs but not for freehand: you start with the blade on the stone obviously, but you can run it off the edges and/or the end. Then every now and then you turn the stone (still in the box, don't over think it!) end to end so that you use both ends and even out wear.

 

[Rorton]

Ok thanks, it just looked like on Graham’s web page, the stone was removed from the box, on closer inspection it’s the leather attached to a piece of timber which I thought was the box

 

[Awac]

Here is an old how-to from Pike 1913.
Old, but gives advice for care of oilstones, not much has changed since.
Don't whatever you do start a discussion on what is best, hollow grind v flat grind? It will go somewhere you do not want to go.....yet...

 

[Jacob]

Here is an old how-to from Pike 1913.
Old, but gives advice for care of oilstones, not much has changed since.
Don't whatever you do start a discussion on what is best, hollow grind v flat grind? It will go somewhere you do not want to go.....yet...

Very interesting!
No mention of a honing jig (not counting the grindstone attachment). They had been invented but only as a gadget to sell to amateurs or "gentleman woodworkers". Old ones (before mid C20) are very rare.

 

[Rorton]

Thanks. I think I’ll try without the jig, only worry is a couple of chisels are not square at the end. Would prefer not to rely on one as I feel it will be easier and hence I will sharpen more if I can just go to the stone and use it.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks. I think I’ll try without the jig, only worry is a couple of chisels are not square at the end. Would prefer not to rely on one as I feel it will be easier and hence I will sharpen more if I can just go to the stone and use it.

They don't have to be dead square for most purposes. If you want them straighter just bias the sharpening a bit each time to take more off one side than the other.

 

[Jacob]

Just deleted this - needs working on!

 

[Jacob]

Just deleted this - needs working on!
How do you delete a post completely?

 

[Awac]

Very interesting!
No mention of a honing jig (not counting the grindstone attachment). They had been invented but only as a gadget to sell to amateurs or "gentleman woodworkers". Old ones (before mid C20) are very rare.

Notice they are trying to sell grinding wheels and stones. Freehand honing is much easier when you have a hollow grind as you can rock and feel the bezel, and is easier to freehand. This is a good argument for hollow grinding (careful, dangerous ground....!).
If not using a grinding wheel and trying to reshape or put a good angle on a tool, I find it easier to use something like the eclipse guide for the donkey work, (my hands cramp up if doing it for too long) because you can direct more pressure with less effort. Then you can freehand as you work just to keep the edge fresh.

That's what I do anyway....if not using my pro-edge or hand grinder.

 

[doctor Bob]

Just use what you have and practice to get as sharp as you can.
Once you can achieve a nice consistant/even shape and a burr, then invest a bit.

Sharpening is very important, but is not mystical.