Chisel selection.

[JonnyP]

Can anyone suggest a make of Paring chisels?

I see that Robert Sorby make some, but a while back I was advised against them as the quality can be a bit off. I was told that you can flattern the back, but they can then go out of shape.

What about the Japanese chisles (Shinogiusunomi) sold by Classic Hand Tools? Expensive but good?

Has anybody used the Lie-Nielsen range of Long handled Bevel edge chisels - it says they can be used for paring.

Thanks!!

 

[woodbloke]

JonnyP - I, along with many others on the forum, have the standard LN bench chisels which in my view, are excellent. The LN paring chisels are the same blades with a longer paring shaped hornbeam handle, so should in theory be just as good. They don't of course have the traditional longer blade of the normal paring chisel - Rob

 

[Alf]

I'm still waiting for a convincing explanation as to why a longer handle on the same chisel makes it a "paring chisel". Surely it just makes it a chisel with a longer handle? I put a longer handle on a gouge and used it to hollow a chair seat, but it doesn't make it an adze. What signs and portents in a chisel qualify it as "paring" these days? 'cos the LNs don't tick any of the boxes I thought applied.

Cheers, Alf

 

[MikeW]

The LN may be used for paring like Alf mentions, but one can be aided by using a paring chisel--long, thin, and slightly flexible blade.

I use the Sorbys I bought a long while back. I too have heard they are not what they use to be, but I know a few others who have purchased recently and after a couple sharpenings seem fine. That goes to the most oft said comment, that they seem to be of variable quality.

If I were purchasing new ones again, as opposed to trying to put together a vintage set, I would get the Henry Taylors. I have used some of recent vintage and the steel is better than my Sorbys.

But all this really means is a primary bevel of 20 to 25 degrees and a small micro bevel added on only the finest stone used when sharpening. A few touch-ups while working, which I think is a best practice thing anyway.

Take care, Mike

 

[manso]

I had simply assumed that the longer handles were there to provide more control?leverage while paring

 

[MikeW]

I had simply assumed that the longer handles were there to provide more control?leverage while paring

As regards the LN? Yep, that's why they are there. The extra length makes a difference when determining the angle of the chisel.

Call me old fashioned, but the extra length of an actual paring chisel is a further bonus. Too, the thinner cross section, ability to lower the bevel angle for lighter paring cuts also makes a difference.

But take the above with a grain of salt. I have pared with bench chisels and firmers. It's all doable with whatever one has. That too is an extra point. I wouldn't buy the LN chisels for any other reason than having a new set of bench chisels. And if I was buying a set and wanted the extra length for paring, I would also get the set of the long handles. Just takes a few seconds to swap the handles for switching between the two functions.

Take care, Mike

 

[Frank D.]

Maybe David Charlesworth can expand on the long LN handles; I think he's the one who suggested they put them on.
I understand how a long blade can be more flexible in practice Mike, but do you really take advantage of this characteristic when paring? Seems to me that you'd have to push down pretty hard, more like you'd do when carving.
Western style paring chisels usually have longer blades, but Japanese style paring chisels have longer shanks and handles. I think they both have the same effect of giving the user more control over paring angles. I also think that's the rationale for the LN handles on shorter blades (replacing metal with wood). The japanese style (as well as the LNs apparently, although I'm not sure to which extent) chisels also have the main blade at an angle to the shank or socket, which gives them clearance and allows them to remain flat and cut wood at least all the way up to the handle (past the socket). My paring chisels have a 3 1/2" blade, a 4" shank/socket, and a 6 1/2" handle. They feel very long and afford a lot of control and comfort.

 

[David C]

I guess it depends what you are using your paring chisels for.

Patternmakers might have needed a very long blade, but I have never felt the need.

The long handle option was my suggestion and the result is similar to my Japanese paring chisels, which I have always liked a lot.

Personally I rarely make a paring cut longer than 3/4".

When working on the sides of dog holes in a 4" bench top I once needed a 2" reach.

Would be interested to hear when the flexibility of the English pattern comes in useful? Generally I prefer stiffer blades.

The extreme thinness could be very helpful in some cases?

As is so often the case I think the important factor is what suits the user and their style of work.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Anonymous]

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[bugbear]

I have always assumed that the main use of a paring chisel is for flattening the bottom of housing joints such as you'd find in the head of a door casing to house the linings

The main use of paring chisels is pattern making, as evidenced by the number and range of such chisels found in pattern maker's toolchests.

BugBear

 

[mr]

Would a longer handly be more useful for getting your shoulder into the cut? ie literally providing the motive force with the shoulder.
Mike

 

[MikeW]

Hi Frank,

Mostly though when cleaning out through dadoes. Like a plow, I typically begin on the far side to establish a visual finished depth of cut. While the blade is basically laying in the dado, I am pressing down on the end of the chisel. It's not a great amount of pressure and they do flex.

I also have been known to quickly waste descrepencies between two or more mating boards with the chisel flat and flexing the chisel at the tip as it begins leveling across the grain. More control to me than a plane. In the Japanese tradition, this may be done with a slick or spear point jobby [I forget the name].

I also like the feedback sense. If I am paring a mortise wall, I can feel instantly if I begin undercutting by the flex induced by taking a thicker cut as the chisel goes down in hard woods.

The common issue between yours, the LN with long handles, and the traditional long paring chisels is the extended length over what are commonly called bench chisels. I think this, the length, is one of the biggest factors I mentioned which distinguishes relative merit over bench chisels for paring use. Second is the lower bevel angle...

There is also the issue of bevel angle mentioned above. Whether we are talking about vintage Stanley or modern LN, the lower bevel angle is important to me. Neither of those retain an edge well in hard hardwoods at a low angle. The Sorbys do fine, the HTs better still. I think also the thickness of the blade depends on what we consider paring: tissue thin or thicker slices? The thinness doesn't really come into play unless you are paring more than the lightest of slices. Combine thinness and low bevel angle and it is much easier to pare thicker slices.

To a great extent, it is summed up where I said, call me old fashioned. Read that as tradition. It is the same tradition which prefers straight-sided firmers in place of bevel-edge chisels for bench use. I never have liked the Stanley 750 style of chisel but do own some. I feel they are too short and uncomfortable on the guiding hand. Ditto other brands of BE chisels, regardless of tradition.

One thing I have never liked about Japanese chisels is the relative short blade section once one starts getting to about 13 mm and above. I feel I have to hold at the base of the handle to guide the chisel and it's too narrow for my liking.

As DC says, "As is so often the case I think the important factor is what suits the user and their style of work." As I can only speak from what suits me, those issues whether articulated well or no, are my perceptions of what I use and why.

Take care, Mike

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I think that the boundary between paring chisel and bench chisel has blurred for most users. When I think of the act of paring with a chisel, it is the take controlled shavings by pushing the chisel, as opposed to the less controlled process of using a mallet to force the blade through the wood.

When guiding and pushing by hand, one benefits from as much feedback as possible. It is for this reason that I prefer a light, slim chisel such as bevel edged Bergs with a 20 degree cutting angle. The contrast to these are my Japanese bench chisels, which I almost always use with a hammer. I can also pare with the latter, but the blades are thick, the handles are hooped, the cutting angles are a high 30 degrees (which causes more resistance when entering wood).

I think that length has less to do with defining a paring chisel, although traditionally this has been so. I consider the shorter blade Bergs I set aside for paring dovetails as paring chisels. I made longer handles for them for the extra leverage, but they are still paring chisels by virtue of the method by which they are used.

The botom line is that a paring chisel is optimised for delicate cuts, and a bench chisel is better able to survive more robust treatment.

If we accept this, then the small Blue Spruce dovetail chisels (of which I have 1/8" - 3/4" on order), arealso to be considerd true paring chisels. Ditto the LN chisels when the long handles are added.

About as clear as I can think at 1:00 am!

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alf]

Well that saved me having to type "it depends what you want to use them for" - which was the plan... :wink: :lol:

I wonder if the idea of what constitutes a paring chisel has blurred with the change in technique consciously or unconsciously engendered by the use of power tools? The router in particular. Personally I'd have less of a problem with the LNs if they weren't A2; after all it's known for not being quite so happy at lower bevel angles. Then if the sockets were cranked the short blade wouldn't bother me at all either. If the cross section of the blade was a bit more elegant I'd be really happy...

Aww, who'm I kidding? Still not convinced. :lol: But hey, I have a lovely range of old parers I got for peanuts so I don't need to be convinced anyway. And yes, BB, they came from a patternmaker.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Frank D.]

Thanks for that explanation Mike. I see what you mean now. Actually the chisels I made for myself would probably qualify as paring chisels to some degree, and they do flex a little too ( blades are 1/8" thick). Oh yes, just to be clear (I know i wasn't), I don't have Lie-Nielsen paring chisels, but Japanese ones. They are huge compared to my Japanese bench chisels, and the blade does not flex at all. Unfortunately they don't have a picture of a naked lady on them like Alf's paring chisels. They came with bevels between 25 and 30 degrees.

 

[Anonymous]

So how would you go about sharpening these different types of chisel, Nooooooooo, :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: i'm joking, don't even go there :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Alf]

So how would you go about sharpening these different types of chisel

Quietly and without fuss in the manner that suited me, how else? :wink:

 

[David C]

Surely the better tool for cleaning the bottom of dados and housings is a router plane, hag's tooth router etc.

These have the advantage of finishing the bottom to a consistent depth.

David Charlesworth

 

[Anonymous]

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[MikeW]

Surely the better tool for cleaning the bottom of dados and housings is a router plane, hag's tooth router etc.

These have the advantage of finishing the bottom to a consistent depth.

David Charlesworth

Surely the better tool is an electric router stopped or through. Even better for those which fit, is to use the WoodRat. Of course, there's always the dreaded dado blade in the tablesaw, too :wink:

There are always "but surely" solutions, and in the case of cleaning dadoes, "Surely" holds true. Unless one didn't know there were powered and non-powered routers when one learned how to make dadoes by hand. And seeing how my tablesaw, such as it is, is in storage in the garden shed...

And while I had a MF router for several years and used it, I sold it. Do still have a #271 somewhere though. And I certainly have the ability to make an OWT--even a nice metal one--but I haven't gotten around to it.

So one uses what they have, what they are comfortable using or they spend time or money to make or buy a solution. The chisel method from my youth works fine enough I have done neither.

Take care, Mike