Changing Times

[Phil Pascoe]

With luck they will clear up the mess we have made.

Just what our parents said.

 

[Cabinetman]

That could be open to interpretation. I read somewhere that manufacturing, measured by £ value, has always increased year-on-year in the UK. What has declined is the number of people employed in manufacturing. Fewer and fewer people produce more and more. Much the same happened to agriculture before that. I have not checked the statistics but I would not be surprised if this is true.

I don’t know any figures, but I would suspect that what we produce now in this country is very high-end and technologically brilliant or highly skilled niche market or world beating music and film etc. so we have moved away from high volume low value mass produced tut.
I think that now we will be able to reach out to tariff free markets that were restricted before and that this country will prosper, well that’s my hope for New Year’s Eve. Ian

 

[Nigel Burden]

Interesting. I don't know what counts as the S.W. but I suspect it's a lot larger area than I would say it was - probably up to Swindon. £175,000 average house price? This is the poorest area, and £175,000 would just about get you on the ladder. £300,000 - £400,000 would buy you a decent enough house. My neighbour in an adjoining two bedroom bungalow was told a few weeks ago to to put it on the market for £235,000 - but to ensure she had somewhere to move to as she would sell it the week it went on the market..

The S.W. up until the 1970s, when they threw Bournemouth and Christchurch into Dorset, started at the Dorset/Hampshire border in the East and included Devon, Cornwall, and Somerset, but Wiltshire and Gloucestershire are sometimes included.

My three bedroom semi would sell for between £300,000 and £330,000 depending on condition, maybe up to £350,000. My adjoining neighbour has just sold his house, it was on the market for £328,000, and it needed work doing. Some new built properties in the village are selling at from just under £300,00 for a two bedroom, and around £400,00 for a three bed.

I guess the situation in some parts of Dorset regarding second homes is just as bad as Cornwall judging by what the breeder of my daughters dog told us. She lived at the time in Acton, an old quarrying village just a couple of miles from Swanage. Of thirty three properties, twenty seven were second homes or holiday lets.

Nigel.

 

[Nigel Burden]

Just what our parents said.

Father would have said that we'll make an even bigger mess of it.

Nigel.

 

[Rorschach]

That could be open to interpretation. I read somewhere that manufacturing, measured by £ value, has always increased year-on-year in the UK. What has declined is the number of people employed in manufacturing. Fewer and fewer people produce more and more. Much the same happened to agriculture before that. I have not checked the statistics but I would not be surprised if this is true.

Our manufacturing is much more automated than it once was but also we tend to produce high spec, high value items, like jet engines and military hardware.

 

[doctor Bob]

Our manufacturing is much more automated than it once was but also we tend to produce high spec, high value items, like jet engines and military hardware.

...... and bespoke kitchens ...........

being serious, when you look at the rest of the world kitchens, especially USA ones our UK traditional high end kitchens are the nuts

 

[Phil Pascoe]

... my UK traditional high end kitchens are the nuts

Ftfy.

 

[artie]

...... and bespoke kitchens ...........

being serious, when you look at the rest of the world kitchens, especially USA ones our UK traditional high end kitchens are the nuts

When my now deceased uncle visited a few years ago from Canada, he thought my sisters B&Q kitchen was out of this world.
He kept opening the cupboard door to see the bin lid raising automatically.
To be fair he was from a generation that didn't have much, and when older didn't want much except a fat bank account.

 

[NickVanBeest]

Happy 2021 everyone!

We're all doomed to repeat history, until we have it properly documented, and learn from our mistakes...

 

[clogs]

I don't think it the working lads that trashed the UK ...apart from Unions that outlived their usefulness....
it was the easy money, get rich quick brigade in suits that did the damage...when u've got money it's easy to get more makeing second homes etc available.....
My dad fixed up our grotty house in North London with a rubbish chisel a pen knife and a beat up old hammer...dont mention the panel saw..
he'd roll over in his grave if he could see what we have now......
when I cam back from California I brought back 5 Makita drill drivers etc etc (not available in the UK) he could not beleive it....
travel not only broadens the mind but forces up standards.....
In the US u can now buy Euro style kitchens, the average kitchen there was just that, average but for a "Few Dollars More" decent kitchen were available.....but like the UK only more of them (people) they couldn't afford the fancy ones....
Also and we're getting the same, everything is disposable inc kitchens....

to get a better return on my rental prop I have to bin/upgrade the kitchen and 3 bathrooms...it will pay dividens over the next 5 years.....but they are fine now, just out of fashion.....!!!!
when I think back as child in London we had an outside privey and a tin bath on a nail.....
Progeress in deed...
have a great new year......one and all.....

 

[Blackswanwood]

when I think back as child in London we had an outside privey and a tin bath on a nail.....

 

[Peri]

.............the days of kids building bikes from secondhand parts and building models from balsa & Airfix kits seems to have gone, do model shops even exist anymore! so growing up using their hands has also gone, how many ten year olds now could repair a puncture? This theme carries on in life, we used to accept that not everyone is academic and so had technical colleges and apprenticeships but now every one has to go to uni and get a degree in something and then get a job in McDonalds...............

(My turn to sound like my dad)

I work in the engineering dept of a technical college, and we staff often say exactly the same.
All the 'hands on' staff (those teaching milling, turning, welding, pneumatics, hydraulics etc etc) - and we're all, without exception, over 50 - grew up with parents either in the trades, or who took working with tools as a very serious hobby. A lot of the 16 or 17 year olds we get through the doors have never even held a spanner before coming to us. Many of them will limp through one of our courses, having no real interest in being there, doing the bare minimum, and will never own any tools in their life - as their parents don't.

Every year though there are a handful that have some sort of switch thrown. They fall in love with a lathe or a mig welder and you can't teach them fast enough. They want to work through breaks and are asking for extra work - so I haven't entirely given up hope !

I do wonder what education will be like in 20 years when we've all retired though. Not so long back we had a young 'university qualified engineer' join us - he asked a staff member to give a talk to his group about pillar drills because he'd never used one. "I'm not the type of engineer that gets his hands dirty".

 

[Peri]

View attachment 99916

 

[MikeJhn]

I have read every post here and agree and disagree in equal amounts with everything that has been said, except I don't think there is anything wrong with "goat curry"

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I've had and enjoyed a workshop from the age of 15 but now at 73;

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Spectric]

I do wonder what education will be like in 20 years when we've all retired though. Not so long back we had a young 'university qualified engineer' join us - he asked a staff member to give a talk to his group about pillar drills because he'd never used one. "I'm not the type of engineer that gets his hands dirty"

The best engineers come up through the ranks from the shop floor, starting with dirty hands and maybe ending up in the design department with clean hands. I have worked with the straight from uni type and most were as useful as a chocolate teapot. How can someone with a degree in electronic engineering have never used a soldering station or someone with a mechanical qualification never seen an epicyclic gear train! Engineering is as much something you feel as it is academic, you can do all the maths, calculations and modeling you want but often it is your experience and gut feeling that tells you whether the results are credable or nonsense. I remember some futuristic film where everything was automated or robotic and one day it all stopped because some part broke and the automated systems could not make a new one but luckily they found some guy who had a manual machine who did make a new one to get everything running, are we heading down this path?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I understand benefit of having hands on skills which provides intuitive insights into what does and does not work.

However, in a many areas we have designed out the need for hands on skills. We replace modules rather than individual components. Design is geared towards automating and reducing production costs rather than easing repair. Products are increasingly reliable.

Practical skills are needed in the design process, but much less in post sales support. Optimising production processes is as much about IT, logistics, processes etc as hands on engineering skills.

A solution may be to elevate the esteem and value attached to practical skills.

One approach may be to balance currently more academic engineering degree level education with a practical component (perhaps 30%). Candidates would need to get a "pass" in both the academic and practical elements of the course to be awarded a degree.

 

[Trextr7monkey]

Interesting thread that I can identify with - born late 50s, mining village, bicycles, motor bikes, cars classic cars....
For nearly 20 years I ran the workshops in a small private school. We had plenty of freedom and we kept traditional skills going alongside cnc. I was lucky to have 2 highly experienced old guys working with me and we chose exam courses that encouraged creativity rather than competence. We also encouraged girls to maintain their interest beyond the first few years.
Looking back we helped several architects and engineers and interior designers on their way but also gave kids the can do approach to life and it’s difficulties. We also had super enthusiastic people from farms and family businesses who were desperate to learn as much as possible.
I think there’s still hope!

 

[MikeJhn]

The demise of Brixton School of Building was the start of the rot for Structural Engineers and Architects, can you imagine one of these modern professionals laying bricks and then having to render the wall the following week.

 

[Peri]

True story

A construction lecturer was talking to a new group of students, when asked if any of them knew what they were doing, one 17 year old kid said he had a distinction in bricklaying from school.
"OK, everything you need is over in that corner, start building a wall, I'll be back in 10 minutes"
When he came back, the kid was looking a bit lost.
"Whats the problem?" asked the lecturer.
The kid said "I didn't actually do any brick laying - the teacher built the wall and we wrote about how it was done"

Perhaps already there aren't enough skilled people in teaching to give kids the time and training a lot of them want or deserve,