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There are two groups who suffer through drug addition:
  • those addicted who fund a habit sometimes or often through crime. Ultimately a number get on the ladder towards the ever more powerful and eventually suffer/die badly
  • the rest of society are the victims of crime to fund drug habits, pay for the somewhat inadequate efforts to rehabilitate and pick up the pieces (family etc), and pay taxes to fund largely ineffective judicial processes (police, courts, prisons etc)
AFAIK the only beneficiaries of drug addition are dealers and producers.

Bluntly - the status quo is completely broken. It needs to change.

Legalisation delivered by prescription (+ counselling and information (a la tobacco) on demand) may risk increasing the number of addicts but otherwise could be very positive:
  • crime to fund addiction largely eliminated
  • end to ineffectual judicial processes (they simply have not worked)
  • dealers and producers out of business
  • prescriptions - quality controlled products under normal NHS drug procurement processes
  • support to families etc can be targeted through prescription process
If implemented - bluntly - if folk take drugs, fail to avail themselves of available support, suffer mentally and physically possibly ending in death:
  • is that any worse than happens now - I suspect not
  • at least wider society gets the benefits anticipated
  • it is no different to the outcome of tobacco and alcohol addition which society generally accepts as a norm.
 
From across the pond, We have a new type of commercials on TV. "Why drink all weekend then have a hangover on Monday? Just smoke Our stuff and be clear headed on Monday morning!" Don't think so.
 
Why wouldn't people have a right to grow their own? After all, you can brew your own beer or grow your own tobacco and I don't see much of a problem occurring with those...
No problem at all for self consumption.
But how do you control the probable on sale of an unlicensed and an uncontrolled substance.
It goes against the logic of all that's been said here about legalising a drug, namely ensuring a safe and controlled manufacture of a substance for retail sale.
Growing for own use is admirable, but illicit trade can and will grow from that for those who cannot be bothered themselves to grow it. Hence squaring the circle back to the illegal sale of a substance devoid of quality control and not producing a income through excise duty and tax like tobacco.

So self growing would not be allowed under the new law. Unlike alcohol where the genie is out of the bottle and all the law can do is stop your on sale of the product. If the alcohol laws were enacted today, I dare say self brewing of beer and distilling alcohol would be banned under the provision of sale laws also.
 
There are two groups who suffer through drug addition:
  • those addicted who fund a habit sometimes or often through crime. Ultimately a number get on the ladder towards the ever more powerful and eventually suffer/die badly
  • the rest of society are the victims of crime to fund drug habits, pay for the somewhat inadequate efforts to rehabilitate and pick up the pieces (family etc), and pay taxes to fund largely ineffective judicial processes (police, courts, prisons etc)
AFAIK the only beneficiaries of drug addition are dealers and producers.

Bluntly - the status quo is completely broken. It needs to change.

Legalisation delivered by prescription (+ counselling and information (a la tobacco) on demand) may risk increasing the number of addicts but otherwise could be very positive:
  • crime to fund addiction largely eliminated
  • end to ineffectual judicial processes (they simply have not worked)
  • dealers and producers out of business
  • prescriptions - quality controlled products under normal NHS drug procurement processes
  • support to families etc can be targeted through prescription process
If implemented - bluntly - if folk take drugs, fail to avail themselves of available support, suffer mentally and physically possibly ending in death:
  • is that any worse than happens now - I suspect not
  • at least wider society gets the benefits anticipated
  • it is no different to the outcome of tobacco and alcohol addition which society generally accepts as a norm.
Note tobacco is not prescribed on demand. Nicotine substitutes may be provided, but fewer doctors are willing to prescribe them either.
 
According to that more people die of Paracetamol abuse than Cannabis. Cannabis is very low on the scale and hardly a major issue at all.
Tobacco is the big one - and vapes are more risky than Cannabis as far as I can see.
Screenshot 2024-01-14 at 18.47.33.png
 
Assuming all done correctly in the ideal growing conditions then each plant could yield 3 + pounds of weed or 48 ounces . Let’s say a large scale production of 1000 mature plants so 1000x 48 - 48,000 ounces at £10 per gram ,,,28 grams per ounce oh damm I hate maths but that’s why they take the risks . The babysitters are there to take care of the crop and produce the goods without alerting the surrounding units . They are most likely paying off a huge debt for their journey to the uk . I smoked it for 30 years but gave it up a couple of years ago . I’ve had more health issues since I gave up tbh . What I don’t agree with is the theft of electricity or as in this case the damage done to homes and buildings in the process of producing cannabis . There was a factory unit near me raided and there must of been 40 officers present - can’t help thinking of all those assaults and robberies etc not to mention the boy racers terrorising ghe local streets and roads .
Sound like a business plan. ;)
 
No problem at all for self consumption.
But how do you control the probable on sale of an unlicensed and an uncontrolled substance.
It goes against the logic of all that's been said here about legalising a drug, namely ensuring a safe and controlled manufacture of a substance for retail sale.
Growing for own use is admirable, but illicit trade can and will grow from that for those who cannot be bothered themselves to grow it. Hence squaring the circle back to the illegal sale of a substance devoid of quality control and not producing a income through excise duty and tax like tobacco.

So self growing would not be allowed under the new law. Unlike alcohol where the genie is out of the bottle and all the law can do is stop your on sale of the product. If the alcohol laws were enacted today, I dare say self brewing of beer and distilling alcohol would be banned under the provision of sale laws also.
I think we're talking at cross purposes here: when I spoke earlier about quality control, I was referring to manufactured drugs, not cannabis, which is grown. A lot of the harm done by cocaine, amphetamines and the like is down to adulteration with other substances to bulk out the active ingredient. I am pretty sure that would not happen with weed and if it did, it would be something pretty harmless, such as raspberry leaf, although to anyone who is familiar with weed, that would be pretty easy to spot. By all means have licensed growers and sellers, but that does not mean people should not be allowed to grow for their own use as well. As I say, people are allowed to brew beer and share it with their friends, which has led to very few problems that I'm aware of and let's not forget that for many years, home brewing was outlawed in this country, only becoming legal in 1963. Thankfully the government realised how silly that was and did away with an unnecessary and costly to police law.
 
According to that more people die of Paracetamol abuse than Cannabis. Cannabis is very low on the scale and hardly a major issue at all.
Tobacco is the big one - and vapes are more risky than Cannabis as far as I can see.
View attachment 173808
That's because the effect of even a minor overdose of Paracetamol is currently irreversible with today's medication.
A large majority of those cases are because people think Paracetamol is benign taken above prescribed limits.
Paracetamol is a cumulative drug, not easily dissipated by the body, so even a small overdose can be fatal and unlike many drugs, cannot be treated easily or halted. The only real treatment is wait and see.
 
What makes everyone think it'll be cheaper if legalised. If its still price prohibitive, then the likelihood of continued criminality to fund a habit will still be there.
Cannabis is as easy to grow as a tomato plant. It could be grown very economically in commercial greenhouses. The determining price, if it were legalised, would be how much it was taxed. If the will was there, criminals could be completely priced out of the market.
 
Cannabis is as easy to grow as a tomato plant. It could be grown very economically in commercial greenhouses. The determining price, if it were legalised, would be how much it was taxed. If the will was there, criminals could be completely priced out of the market.
Unlikely to price criminals out of the market, their costs won't increase.
 
If the price drops, so does their incentive.
But given the comparative excise duty on tobacco and vat, then that price will be far above what criminal element can sell at and still return a handsome profit.
 
See previous comment.
Repeating the same statement is like trying to prove your point by shouting over the crowd, increased volume doesn't make any more convincing an argument, neither does repeating a false assumption!
 
I live in the Barcelona area, Spain, just south and over here growing cannabis is actually legal, a sort of grey area but you can grow 3 plants per adult person per property aslon as they cannot be seen from the road or impact your neighbours in any way.

So while I can do that we still have plenty of people over here who still have to break the law and try and make a killing despite of this.

Well last september my friend over here discovered that his house which he rented out to a guy for the last 18 months had in fact been turned into a Marijuana farm, there had been a attempted robbery and the police had been called by a neighbour ,they tuned up and discovered all 3 floors of the house were full of plants around 500 in all.

Every room apart from one bedroom the kitchen and bathroom were being used.

The plants were all there growing in individual pots with spray irrigation, full automatic lighting, watering, heating and cooling, the 3 floors were in various stages of cultivation to allow always a continuous supply of harvested extremely high quality potent Marijuana.

The police estimated that the house was turning over €500,000 per year.

That was a small 3 bedroom house ! in a valley just outside with neighbours either who had no idea what was going on.

The Tenant aka drug lord ,grower and we assume dealer had broken into the water supply before the meter, he employed an electrician who had run a new set of of heavy 100 amp cables from the pole in the road into the house and run in new 3 phase switch boards to every floor, then had large 3 phase air conditioners installed on every floor as well with all the external units just piled up outside in the garden. On top of that there was a full charcoal fume filter ventilation system using large inline fans,ducting and fume filters all over the house. ( ended up with 2 of them for myself for a dust extraction system I am building for my CNC along with the fans and ducting )

The existing house electricity was kept on to keep up a front as with the water supply.

The tenant wasn't there when the police broke in and discovered all of this but handed himself in to them3days later. Hes now awaiting trial but out on bail.

The police removed all the plants and some of the equipment I had to go in late at night and do a video of the damage for my friend which hopefully I can post below, language is colourful at times.

After a few days in custody the tenant left and then tried to come back and take possession of the house again but we had boarded it up, he then had the cheek to get his lawyer involved who threatened my friend under the lease if he wasnt allowed back in.

My friend refused with Foxtrot Oscar and said sue me, well thats whats happening now. Can you believe this ????

This is what it is like over here the tenants have so many rights over here without fear of getting kicked out.

The repairs to the house were around 25k , the insurers paid just 6k, he managed to keep the tenants deposit and the rest was obtained by selling off all the marijuana growing paraphernalia, pots, grow medium, gallons of food and chemicals, watering systems, heating electronics, computer kits that go with that, aircon units, electrical cabling and all the fuse boards etc.etc there was enough stuff to equip another 3 houses at least in the garage the police said.

Since that day we have had another 6 houses in our area raided and shut down,

Drugs are a huge probelm in Spain and most are being grown by eastern europeans who come to Spain and basically take over.

The Police told us that most of the properties that have been used are Airbnb listings rented on a long term rental.

For the record i do not use Marijuana or grow it to sell which is totally illegal here, personal consumption from growing is not.

I grew it once to just see what the fuss was all about, I haven't used any drugs before it was a interesting year in my life that year and as we dont smoke we made Canna butter and used it in cookies, they were good fun and you got very high from it with non of the side effects like you have with alcohol the next day, I only did it for one season and we stopped after that. I stress it is legal here in Spain to do this therefore I have no problem in confirming this. I'm a resident here of 25 years.

The risks of being stopped by the police and tested are quite high and if you are stopped the marijuana is in your body for several days after consumption at high levels and you will be over the limit. It just wasn't worth the risk.

I have also seen far too many people here who consume it regularly and what they turn into after a couple of years of using it. They tend not to be nice people any longer.



The video in the link was shot by me around midnight about 2 hours after the police left.

Aftermath of Police raid on my friends house
This was just some of the young plants in the lower floor, in the garage behind this lot was the drying room which we were not allowed in!

58FFEF0B-2819-414D-B22A-B363DF10AC2F_1_105_c.jpeg
 
If you work on such an industrial estate, there may well be one near you!
Hi @XTiffy, it has already happened - right opposite us in lockdown 2020

£1 million found they said. No-one arrested, despite other company owners on our estate informing the police of their suspicions due to the smell at least 1 month prior to the raid...

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/huge-1-million-cannabis-operation-4253963
Thing is, we never saw anyone coming or going in the day and assumed it was vacant at the time.

It was a bit surreal as it happened in the first 2020 lockdown & apart from us, the whole estate (country/everything) was empty, but we worked through with container & customer deliveries & I spent a few days in the sun at this time sitting outside working on things just 200 yards away watching all the forensic white clad people bringing all the bags out to put in vans, and loads of police coming and going.

As you say, it will be happening way more than most people would know.

Cheers, Nick
 
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