mudman
Established Member
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- 11 Feb 2004
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Alf":34v54lje said:
Which my work's filtering software considers to be unsuitable. :evil:
Perhaps it thinks the 'knots' reference is to some sort of BDSM?
Can you really make a decent living at woodworking?
- Thread starter mrbmcg
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Which my work's filtering software considers to be unsuitable. :evil:
Perhaps it thinks the 'knots' reference is to some sort of BDSM?
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
Alf":2j0kfzho said:
That's the one I think Alf. Slainte.
well.....maybe for an auld hand like yersel who's proficient at hand cutting double blind twisted dovetails, blindfolded, using nothing more than false teeth... but to a rookie like me.... trust me.. I need all the help I can get...
Are there any Antique Furniture Restorer’s among our membership?
Hi to you all
I had hoped to find some other antique furniture restorer `s amongst the members of this Forum.
It would seem, that what has been discussed in another thread, that there is a niche to be had if this is to your taste and style of work. I still get regular work from insurance companies for items that have been damaged on removal etc, they do not seem to have many of us restorer `s on their books so offer top money with almost no quibbles just as long as it is under the cost of replacement.
As I am getting on a bit now, and have been retired for many years. This is okay as somthing to do but I really do not want to do the amount that is on offer and often say no or quote a very long waiting time, but they still keep coming back to me.
It would appear that anyone who has an interest could contract the insurance companies and offer their services. It would appear from my experience that they would be pleased to have some alternatives on their books.
Regards
Norman
Hi to you all
I had hoped to find some other antique furniture restorer `s amongst the members of this Forum.
It would seem, that what has been discussed in another thread, that there is a niche to be had if this is to your taste and style of work. I still get regular work from insurance companies for items that have been damaged on removal etc, they do not seem to have many of us restorer `s on their books so offer top money with almost no quibbles just as long as it is under the cost of replacement.
As I am getting on a bit now, and have been retired for many years. This is okay as somthing to do but I really do not want to do the amount that is on offer and often say no or quote a very long waiting time, but they still keep coming back to me.
It would appear that anyone who has an interest could contract the insurance companies and offer their services. It would appear from my experience that they would be pleased to have some alternatives on their books.
Regards
Norman
tx2man
Established Member
Hi Norman,
That's very kind of you to make this known to all,
if you could just remind me in five years time, i would
have had enough practice to have the slightest idea
what i was doing.
TX
ps What range of pieces do you get?
That's very kind of you to make this known to all,
if you could just remind me in five years time, i would
have had enough practice to have the slightest idea
what i was doing.
TX
ps What range of pieces do you get?
Hi TX
anything from a small box---breakfront bookcase. if its made of wood and antique it can come in the door only thing I don`t do is upholstery. again chairs are sometime ok, but not full upholstery not my side of trade.
this gives you a wide range to work on and you will never ever be doing the same thing again so no chance to get bored with the work.
you also get to do all the things that you can do from start to finish.
it can be great fun.
norman
anything from a small box---breakfront bookcase. if its made of wood and antique it can come in the door only thing I don`t do is upholstery. again chairs are sometime ok, but not full upholstery not my side of trade.
this gives you a wide range to work on and you will never ever be doing the same thing again so no chance to get bored with the work.
you also get to do all the things that you can do from start to finish.
it can be great fun.
norman
tx2man
Established Member
Hi Norman,
just wondering, does it get a bit nerve racking if the
piece is of great value?
Also, was this always your trade, or something that
grew out of a hobby?
TX
just wondering, does it get a bit nerve racking if the
piece is of great value?
Also, was this always your trade, or something that
grew out of a hobby?
TX
TX
started like you all as hobby, like most could make things had trouble with the finish. helped a chap with some furniture into a furniture van and go talking, as you do! he told me that he had just lost his helper and was short handed so I offered to help if he would show me how to finish. 5 yrs later when he retired i went self employed 1970 been at it ever since.
yes it can pull you up short if you start to wory about what its worth. but after a time it`s not something you think about (except it helps with the job price)if it`s worth a lot then the repair cost % is not such a shock and well worth repairing to the customer.
regards
norman
started like you all as hobby, like most could make things had trouble with the finish. helped a chap with some furniture into a furniture van and go talking, as you do! he told me that he had just lost his helper and was short handed so I offered to help if he would show me how to finish. 5 yrs later when he retired i went self employed 1970 been at it ever since.
yes it can pull you up short if you start to wory about what its worth. but after a time it`s not something you think about (except it helps with the job price)if it`s worth a lot then the repair cost % is not such a shock and well worth repairing to the customer.
regards
norman
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
I'll help out when I can Mike if I know a (the ) solution to a question.
I just need the time, will and energy to respond, and it's not always easy to find all three of those at the same time, ha, ha. Slainte.
I just need the time, will and energy to respond, and it's not always easy to find all three of those at the same time, ha, ha. Slainte.
tim
Established Member
Just picked up this thread. I was in a similar position to bob (who started this post) of working 3 days a week to cover the biz development and fund living (in reality existing). I have just stopped doing that simply because it was never going to get off the ground. I was so bored by the other work and tired that the remaining two days were spent recovering not putting all the energy into developing the business.
So I worked out my survival income and remortgaged the house to cover that for a year (about 15k) and took out a small business loan to cover capital invstement - that way I don't have to swallow all the hit for a new piece of machinery in one job and make no money. I wrote a 5 year plan with the first year detailed and I reckon on a breakeven point in year 3. I don't intend to live off my survival income fund continuously for a year but its there if I need it. If i get work in then I use that to pay my wage. It means that I can start to properly manage my pricing rather than drop to whatever the customer will be willing to pay just to cover my costs.
I know that not everyone will be able to remortgage but there are a lot of funds and grants out there plus get a good accountant - he will save you a fortune - did you know you can offset tax against earlier years where you earned more?
I just had a blinding flash that what I was doing was perpetuating a hobby. Now I am in business doing something I love. They are not the same. I know its still going to be very tough indeed but I think for the first time I've given myself the best chance in succeeding. If it doesn't work out I at least know I gave it my best rather than hedging my bets. As an old boss of mine used to say: "Its time to sh*t or get off the pot!"
Cheers
T
So I worked out my survival income and remortgaged the house to cover that for a year (about 15k) and took out a small business loan to cover capital invstement - that way I don't have to swallow all the hit for a new piece of machinery in one job and make no money. I wrote a 5 year plan with the first year detailed and I reckon on a breakeven point in year 3. I don't intend to live off my survival income fund continuously for a year but its there if I need it. If i get work in then I use that to pay my wage. It means that I can start to properly manage my pricing rather than drop to whatever the customer will be willing to pay just to cover my costs.
I know that not everyone will be able to remortgage but there are a lot of funds and grants out there plus get a good accountant - he will save you a fortune - did you know you can offset tax against earlier years where you earned more?
I just had a blinding flash that what I was doing was perpetuating a hobby. Now I am in business doing something I love. They are not the same. I know its still going to be very tough indeed but I think for the first time I've given myself the best chance in succeeding. If it doesn't work out I at least know I gave it my best rather than hedging my bets. As an old boss of mine used to say: "Its time to sh*t or get off the pot!"
Cheers
T
Chris Knight
Established Member
Tim,
Welcome to the forum. You are a brave man - I wish you every success.
It will be great to hear how you progress - what sort of stuff are you making and for whom?
Welcome to the forum. You are a brave man - I wish you every success.
It will be great to hear how you progress - what sort of stuff are you making and for whom?
tim
Established Member
Don't scare me - :shock: doesn't everyone who makes the leap go through the same?
Making a combination of things - some freestanding pieces which I find challenging, interesting and not particularly profitable and some built in work which I find less challenging but actually enjoy making 'useful' stuff and its much more profitable. I'd like to move away from built in over time because I'd rather not have work on site but needs must. I've done a couple of commercial projects for some shops as well.
The biggest challenge is finding the customers rather than the usual starting point of 'will you make me something.... how much!!!!!....but I can get that in Ikea for..........(by this point I have stopped listening). No longer do I explain that its one off work not one of a million long run and also that I am neither based in Malaysia nor 9 years old. :roll:
Thanks for the welcome. I'm pulling together a website - will look forward to your opinions and criticism.
Cheers
T
Making a combination of things - some freestanding pieces which I find challenging, interesting and not particularly profitable and some built in work which I find less challenging but actually enjoy making 'useful' stuff and its much more profitable. I'd like to move away from built in over time because I'd rather not have work on site but needs must. I've done a couple of commercial projects for some shops as well.
The biggest challenge is finding the customers rather than the usual starting point of 'will you make me something.... how much!!!!!....but I can get that in Ikea for..........(by this point I have stopped listening). No longer do I explain that its one off work not one of a million long run and also that I am neither based in Malaysia nor 9 years old. :roll:
Thanks for the welcome. I'm pulling together a website - will look forward to your opinions and criticism.
Cheers
T
woodshavings
Established Member
Hi Tim, great that you have joined the Forum - Look forward to seeing your website - Good luck with your venture - there is no doubt that a realistic business plan gives you the best shot.
John
- Look forward to seeing your website - Good luck with your venture - there is no doubt that a realistic business plan gives you the best shot.John
welcome Bob to the nuthouse.Just caught up here from flying back from a warm Florida and boy is it cold in Amsterdam now
Ok back to the topic, of going it alone.
I started in a simerler way to Norman, but after so many years restoring and refinishing antiques and hierloom furniture - I wanted to make future antique furniture.Now after 15 years in three countries I have come to the conclusion that people in general Do NOT want to pay the COST of handmade furniture in a quality timber! They want to pay peanuts - in return I say ask a monkey to make it .
The last 71/2 years here in Amsterdam I have had to work on site doing built ins and wooden flooring in order to meet the bills :? and I am now working on my LAST piece. It is meant for TOOLS 2004, but with a delayed return here I do not think I can finish it to the required standerd of the show. But thats another story.Back to topic - if you can hack the 2 job scenario one for money 2nd for the love and sanity DO IT !
I as a professional designer/maker have rarely made a good profit [ over a whole year] on the occasional pieces I have managed to turn a small profit, but the year ! no ! I have , like many other D/Mkers got into debt.How , machines/tools/toys cost a LOT of money, then there is the materials too and then the workshop and finally rates/taxes and if married and with kids - FORGET IT - as others have said think PS 10 per 1000 and double ALL COSTS to EVEN break even. Business no matter in what market is HARD and does not suffer fools gladly.
I wish you all the best - but be warned IT WILL BE DIFFICULT !
all the best from a cold HS in Amsterdam
and boy is it cold in Amsterdam now Ok back to the topic, of going it alone.
I started in a simerler way to Norman, but after so many years restoring and refinishing antiques and hierloom furniture - I wanted to make future antique furniture.Now after 15 years in three countries I have come to the conclusion that people in general Do NOT want to pay the COST of handmade furniture in a quality timber! They want to pay peanuts - in return I say ask a monkey to make it
.The last 71/2 years here in Amsterdam I have had to work on site doing built ins and wooden flooring in order to meet the bills :? and I am now working on my LAST piece. It is meant for TOOLS 2004, but with a delayed return here I do not think I can finish it to the required standerd of the show.
But thats another story.Back to topic - if you can hack the 2 job scenario one for money 2nd for the love and sanity DO IT !I as a professional designer/maker have rarely made a good profit [ over a whole year] on the occasional pieces I have managed to turn a small profit, but the year ! no ! I have , like many other D/Mkers got into debt.How , machines/tools/toys cost a LOT of money, then there is the materials too and then the workshop and finally rates/taxes and if married and with kids - FORGET IT - as others have said think PS 10 per 1000 and double ALL COSTS to EVEN break even. Business no matter in what market is HARD and does not suffer fools gladly.
I wish you all the best - but be warned IT WILL BE DIFFICULT !
all the best from a cold HS in Amsterdam
johnelliott
Established Member
The marvellous thing about doing built-in furniture, be it kitchens, wardrobes, home offices whatever, is that the building-in part can't be made in China or Eastern Europe and then imported here to be sold in specialist retailers. It has to be done on the spot. Either by the home owner or by someone that he/she pays to do the work.
If a woodworker can get enough business doing build-ins then he most certainly can make money, and do a bit of woodwork in the process. Having developed a relationship with a customer he might even be able to sell them a free-standing piece!
I would advise anyone starting in woodwork as a business to concentrate on build ins to start with, and take it from there.
Most of the houses that I have been in doing kitchen stuff have had some scope for built-in storage, people have so much stuff these days and the storage in many houses, especially the newer ones, is inadequate.
My latest kitchen customer has asked me to quote for redoing an entire wall of their bedroom. I'm not sure I fancy it due to the doors in bedrooms being bigger than in kitchens, but I might give it a go. I've asked them to draw me a sketch of what they want, so I'll quote a little bit high and see what happens
John
If a woodworker can get enough business doing build-ins then he most certainly can make money, and do a bit of woodwork in the process. Having developed a relationship with a customer he might even be able to sell them a free-standing piece!
I would advise anyone starting in woodwork as a business to concentrate on build ins to start with, and take it from there.
Most of the houses that I have been in doing kitchen stuff have had some scope for built-in storage, people have so much stuff these days and the storage in many houses, especially the newer ones, is inadequate.
My latest kitchen customer has asked me to quote for redoing an entire wall of their bedroom. I'm not sure I fancy it due to the doors in bedrooms being bigger than in kitchens, but I might give it a go. I've asked them to draw me a sketch of what they want, so I'll quote a little bit high and see what happens
John
Keith Smith
Established Member
I had thought that a lot of the problems I have were because I live out in the wilds of Shropshire and people round here won't pay for hand made pieces. I did think that if I moved into a city I would get more work but from reading this thread looks like I am wrong.
And to make any money you not only have to be good, you also have to be quick; and that often means big outlay on tools (Paslode for instance) and plenty of compromises.
Keith
And to make any money you not only have to be good, you also have to be quick; and that often means big outlay on tools (Paslode for instance) and plenty of compromises.
Keith
johnelliott
Established Member
KeithS":17pyh9hg said:
You don't necessarily need to be 'good' by which I asume you mean talented, or good with your hands, I am neither of these. Quick, yes, definitely. The price of some of the tools which I use on site, e.g Fein Multimaster, Festool saw and guide, etc, seems trivial compared with the time they save.
I think an important part of doing built-in stuff is knowing when it is good enough. Customers will often assume that what you've done is correct and what they should be expecting, especially if you do it with a confident and professional attitude.
John
Keith Smith
Established Member
John Elliott wrote
Hmmm, John, somehow I find that hard to believe.
It is all relative I know, and we can all find someone who is far more skillful than ourselves; I can anyway.
And I do agree that a confident approach with customers is vital.
Keith
Hmmm, John, somehow I find that hard to believe.
It is all relative I know, and we can all find someone who is far more skillful than ourselves; I can anyway.
And I do agree that a confident approach with customers is vital.
Keith
dedee
Established Member
To all those people who do make a living from woodwork. What do you do for a hobby?
Andy (in slightly cynical mode)
Andy (in slightly cynical mode)
Hi Andy
in my case its always been both. now i have more time free i`m trying to make my hierloom furniture and also giving some tips to no 3 son who is showing some interest as a hobby. would be nice to know that my toys will still be played with within the family.
norman
in my case its always been both. now i have more time free i`m trying to make my hierloom furniture and also giving some tips to no 3 son who is showing some interest as a hobby. would be nice to know that my toys will still be played with within the family.
norman
