Can this motor be wired for 230v?
- Thread starter Hudson Carpentry
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CHJ
Established Member
On the basis that the rating plate appears to say 400/440 volts and one Ampere figure I suspect no.
How many terminals are in the connecting box? 3 or 6
How many terminals are in the connecting box? 3 or 6
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
6 I believe ill go check.
CHJ
Established Member
Hudson Carpentry":d97zvrvj said:
OK if there are six terminals, more precisely how many wires are coming out of the motor casing.
Where's Bob (9fingers) when he's needed, he may know the motor pattern first hand.
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
CHJ":2facxwft said:
4 for 3 phase into box and 4 for 3 phase into motor.
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
Hi... simple answer is (confirmed by the rating plate) NO.
More complicated answer is... some 3 ph motors can run at 415 (star) and 220 (delta). BUT this requires 6 terminals in the motor. Then you would be able to put an inverter on it and run it on standard single phase. As your motor only has 3 terminals I suspect this is not an option.
Mr 9 Fingers will be along shortly to give you a more definitive answer.
More complicated answer is... some 3 ph motors can run at 415 (star) and 220 (delta). BUT this requires 6 terminals in the motor. Then you would be able to put an inverter on it and run it on standard single phase. As your motor only has 3 terminals I suspect this is not an option.
Mr 9 Fingers will be along shortly to give you a more definitive answer.
9fingers
Established Member
Did Someone call??? Sorry, I went to bed last night!!
That is a 440v 3 phase motor. It is possible with great care to open it up, break open the star point and bring out a further three wires.
I have done a number of Gryphon motors. BUT it still remains a 3 phase motor and will require an inverter to generate 3 phase 230v from a single phase supply as Doorframe has said.
If you decide to change the motor of a single phase one (after getting some money out of the seller for false listing?) make sure you buy a 6 pole one to get the right operating speed.
hth
Bob
That is a 440v 3 phase motor. It is possible with great care to open it up, break open the star point and bring out a further three wires.
I have done a number of Gryphon motors. BUT it still remains a 3 phase motor and will require an inverter to generate 3 phase 230v from a single phase supply as Doorframe has said.
If you decide to change the motor of a single phase one (after getting some money out of the seller for false listing?) make sure you buy a 6 pole one to get the right operating speed.
hth
Bob
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
Thank you, my next question would me what will this motor do it.
I will of cause wait until I know what the model of the bandsaw is a decide whether im to sell it after I have done some work on it as a 3 phase or keep it and sell my Axi bandsaw.
I have seen motors from aximister for little cost if there suitable.
I will of cause wait until I know what the model of the bandsaw is a decide whether im to sell it after I have done some work on it as a 3 phase or keep it and sell my Axi bandsaw.
I have seen motors from aximister for little cost if there suitable.
CHJ
Established Member
As Bob says, it must be a six pole motor to obtain the same primary speed, not all that common.
9fingers
Established Member
Hudson Carpentry":h8yuc87m said:
I'm sorry I don't quite follow this question. The motor you pictured will not run at all on a single phase supply.
I don't know what sort of size the new bandsaw is but the motor is also rather low power for a bandsaw for professional use.
Axminster do not sell any 6 pole motors that I could see but I can supply details of a couple of reliable sellers who could sort you out with the correct type of motor but the next problem would likely be the shaft size.
Modern motors have metric shafts and tend to be larger than the Gryphon which at a guess will have a 5/8" shaft.
If you buy a single phase motor I would suggest a higher power rating say 750watt (= 1 horsepower) to ensure reliable starting torque.
If your bandsaw has a single pulley, then buying a new, metric pulley might be the easiest solution to fitting a new motor.
If I can be of more help, then please let me know.
Bob
I'll put my pennyworth in if I may on the basis that I faced a not dissimilar problem with a friend's Graduate (bought from a school displenishment for £50 !!!). Albeit that's probably a 4 pole motor, but it was the balance between the cost of a new motor, fighting with having to mount it and fighting with the shaft diameter for the multi-sheave pulley.
As it was a lathe it really was a no-brainer as variable speed was the major advantage of 3 ph via an inverter and I took the plunge and took the back off the motor to re-wire it to delta layout. I found it quite straightforward to the extent that I would expect a motor re-wind shop will do it comfortably in say 2 hours at a cost therefore of around £100. Add £150 for the inverter and I would say that you've got a hassle free and quick solution that wouldn't cost much more than a modern 6 pole motor (with star/delta connections), plus a suitable pulley.
Bob - we don't know what size of bandsaw this is off, but I calculate the input power to this motor at nominally 914W which probably gives around 1 hp shaft power. With the higher starting torque off a 3ph motor (does the number of poles not also improve the starting torque?), might I be brave enough to question whether a 1 hp single phase motor would be enough if 'HC' opts to go down that road, particularly as motors are rated by input power rather than shaft power.
Rob
As it was a lathe it really was a no-brainer as variable speed was the major advantage of 3 ph via an inverter and I took the plunge and took the back off the motor to re-wire it to delta layout. I found it quite straightforward to the extent that I would expect a motor re-wind shop will do it comfortably in say 2 hours at a cost therefore of around £100. Add £150 for the inverter and I would say that you've got a hassle free and quick solution that wouldn't cost much more than a modern 6 pole motor (with star/delta connections), plus a suitable pulley.
Bob - we don't know what size of bandsaw this is off, but I calculate the input power to this motor at nominally 914W which probably gives around 1 hp shaft power. With the higher starting torque off a 3ph motor (does the number of poles not also improve the starting torque?), might I be brave enough to question whether a 1 hp single phase motor would be enough if 'HC' opts to go down that road, particularly as motors are rated by input power rather than shaft power.
Rob
9fingers
Established Member
OldWood":3izv9irs said:
Rob,
I struggled to read the motor plate bottom left to get the HP rating and came up with 0.66 perhaps??
I agree that the OP should use 'the next size up" when going down the route of changing the motor from 3 to single phase.
I'm always a little reluctant to suggest to others that they dive inside motors to pick out the star point. So much depends on their individual abilities and access to high temperature wire and sleeving and being able to lace up the windings again.
You and I would do it without a second thought but the OP might not have the same level of confidence, especially in the light of his original question.
Bob
Thanks Bob - for reading what I missed -- oops !! I would suggest that that is not electrical power but mechanical power level, or perhaps average power level and the current given is peak - or perhaps 70% is the efficiency one can expect from a motor ?. Anyhow we're near enough discussing semantics as the point is given that a higher single phase power is desirable. Without knowing anything about the posters business, I would have tended to agree that for a commercial set up this motor is a bit low in power.
I must have been a bit careless in my writing as my intention was to encourage the owner to look at getting a rewind company to quote, saying from my experience they should be able to do the task in 2 hours. It took me 4 but then I wasn't used to dabbling around in motor innards so they should be able to halve my time comfortably.
Rob
PS I meant to add a comment on your "gone to bed" - what were they all doing discussing this at 2 o'clock in the morning ! :shock: - and then expecting you to pop up instantaneously to spout words of wisdom. Some people should have respect for their elders (hammer)
I must have been a bit careless in my writing as my intention was to encourage the owner to look at getting a rewind company to quote, saying from my experience they should be able to do the task in 2 hours. It took me 4 but then I wasn't used to dabbling around in motor innards so they should be able to halve my time comfortably.
Rob
PS I meant to add a comment on your "gone to bed" - what were they all doing discussing this at 2 o'clock in the morning ! :shock: - and then expecting you to pop up instantaneously to spout words of wisdom. Some people should have respect for their elders (hammer)
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
9fingers":2rfpkzh3 said:
Sorry wrote this in the early hours and my keyboard must of been waving about.
It should have said "Thank You, my next question would be what motor will I need to get if I was to replace the motor with a single phase"
The bandsaw's model I still don't know, I rang record power today (its a startrite bandsaw) to ID it from the serial but there unable to so I have sent them some pictures, its the same bandsaw thats in my can you id this bandsaw thread. Its a 3 wheel bandsaw with a 94-95" blade and 16" table. Although I brought it from a commercial medium size joinery shop thats gone under its not as big as mine.
My experience with electrics isn't poor. I used to work as a sparky in a commercial theater wiring 512DMX lighting systems and have rewired many of houses. When it comes to motors and the like I know there's much I don't know and there maths is far more then just working out how many watts are on a ring main.
I had another look at the machine today and its throat isn't that great but everything seems to move nice and feel of great quailty. I think ill just renovate it and sell on but there is still that thing in the back of my mind that I want to play with it (hammer)
The motor I have looked at from axi is: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod29787/
the 1,100w 4 pole 1425 rpm with a 24mm shaft which is around £114.
There don't seem to be any pully and looked to be a direct drive of the lower wheel.
I would use it to cut shapes in no thicker than 50mm stock and resaw upto 6" timbers. I can't keep both bandsaws due to space.
Ill go measure the shaft shortly.
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
Right the shaft is 5/8 so thats all the Axi's out the window. Yes a contact or two would be nice please. I'll get some quotes and decide what to do.
9fingers
Established Member
The Axi's are out of the question anyway even if they had a 5/8 shaft
You MUST have a six pole motor for your saw to work safely.
Try http://www.electric-motor-man.co.uk/ or http://www.inverterdrive.com/default.aspx
Make sure you state 5/8 shaft and the length of the shaft.
Inverter drive don't list 6 pole motors but they are a 2 man small business and very helpful guys so possibly can source one for you.
Direct drive may mean that the distance between shaft and mounting foot is important.
Don't forget that a single phase motor will need to be more powerful than the current 3phase one - which you will need to read off the plate - we can't see it clearly in your photo.
Give the vendors as much info as possible and they will be best equipped to sort you out the right solution.
Bob
You MUST have a six pole motor for your saw to work safely.
Try http://www.electric-motor-man.co.uk/ or http://www.inverterdrive.com/default.aspx
Make sure you state 5/8 shaft and the length of the shaft.
Inverter drive don't list 6 pole motors but they are a 2 man small business and very helpful guys so possibly can source one for you.
Direct drive may mean that the distance between shaft and mounting foot is important.
Don't forget that a single phase motor will need to be more powerful than the current 3phase one - which you will need to read off the plate - we can't see it clearly in your photo.
Give the vendors as much info as possible and they will be best equipped to sort you out the right solution.
Bob
CHJ
Established Member
There may be a physical size problem with a six pole single phase motor as well, if it's a larger diameter then the spindle centre to fixing foot comes into play, as Bob says you need to be very specific on dimensions.
I know the 1hp single ph six pole motor on one of my lathes is massive, I can hardly pick it up.
I know the 1hp single ph six pole motor on one of my lathes is massive, I can hardly pick it up.
Hudson Carpentry
Established Member
Thanks
Whats the crack with the 6 pole must for safety? not that im questioning your knowledge but I noticed the electric motor man is selling 4 poles and saying there suitable for most machines including saws??
I think the number you said your struggling to read is the HP which is 0.66 so I would need say a 1hp?
Whats the crack with the 6 pole must for safety? not that im questioning your knowledge but I noticed the electric motor man is selling 4 poles and saying there suitable for most machines including saws??
I think the number you said your struggling to read is the HP which is 0.66 so I would need say a 1hp?
