Buying a heavy bandsaw + 3 phase inverter/conversion

[CMax]

Hi chaps,

So, I'm looking to buy a big-ish bandsaw, probably a startrite 352 / Jet 16" or similar. I'm mostly looking at the used market for these and have spotted a few I'm interested in, however, I have no idea how I would go about collecting something this heavy. I'll also have to move it in a few months as I'm moving house. Are there companies that specialise in moving these kind of machines? If I were to hire a van and do it myself, how I would handle the pallet aspect?

Also, some of these larger machines are 3-phase and I only have single phase (30-amp circuit). I've seen various mention on here about converting to single phase with inverters. I can just about wire a plug and know virtually nothing about electrical stuff. How difficult/expensive is it to convert a 3 phase? What would I need, and how do I know if a given bandsaw is able to be converted? Any help on that would be great.

Thanks!

 

[hlvd]

Hi chaps,

So, I'm looking to buy a big-ish bandsaw, probably a startrite 352 / Jet 16-18" or similar. I'm mostly looking at the used market for these and have spotted a few I'm interested in, however, I have no idea how I would go about collecting something this heavy. I'll also have to move it in a few months as I'm moving house. Are there companies that specialise in moving these kind of machines? If I were to hire a van and do it myself, how I would handle the pallet aspect?

Also, some of these larger machines are 3-phase and I only have single phase (30-amp circuit). I've seen various mention on here about converting to single phase with inverters. I can just about wire a plug and no virtually nothing about electrical stuff. How difficult/expensive is it to convert a 3 phase? What would I need, and how do I know if a given bandsaw is able to be converted? Any help on that would be great.

Thanks!

I’d just buy a 240v version as it’ll save you a lot of hassle and money. The Jet was certainly available in both voltages.

 

[Spectric]

I can just about wire a plug and no virtually nothing about electrical stuff

Best bet would be buy a 230v version as it’ll save you a lot of hassle and money if not then get an electrician in for the invertor option.

 

[CMax]

Best bet would be buy a 230v version as it’ll save you a lot of hassle and money if not then get an electrician in for the invertor option.

I’d just buy a 240v version as it’ll save you a lot of hassle and money. The Jet was certainly available in both voltages.

Okay, I hear you both. I guess I'll stick with single phase in my search. Just have to figure how to move/collect one now

 

[Ttrees]

"Everyone knows real machiens are three phase"

Might matter regarding your budget, second hand = half price of new
Three phase = half that again.
Though this might take a bit more time to find a bargain in this size range
say 18 to 20"
Your concerns regarding moving are well documented
Table off, hefty chock under base (trunnion side) if its very tall
walk around to the other side and tilt down by the column.
Might want some fenceposts and carpet/oldjackets whathaveyou.

Dual voltage machines are what you're looking for, and Bob's write up on induction motors is available under his signature over on "the other place 2"
If no time to read, then familiarize yourself with seeing 240v option on motor nameplate.
One unit per machine though, but way more versatile for a scrimper like myself.

Tom

 

[CMax]

"Everyone knows real machiens are three phase"

Might matter regarding your budget, second hand = half price of new
Three phase = half that again.
Though this might take a bit more time to find a bargain in this size range
say 18 to 20"
Your concerns regarding moving are well documented
Table off, hefty chock under base (trunnion side) if its very tall
walk around to the other side and tilt down by the column.
Might want some fenceposts and carpet/oldjackets whathaveyou.

Dual voltage machines are what you're looking for, and Bob's write up on induction motors is available under his signature over on "the other place 2"
If no time to read, then familiarize yourself with seeing 240v option on motor nameplate.
One unit per machine though, but way more versatile for a scrimper like myself.

Tom

Thanks for the info, Tom. 18"+ might be too large for me. I have a relatively small workshop and only need to re-saw about 8" tall boards. I have about 2k to spend, but for that I was hoping to get 2 saws: a large one for re-sawing and straight cuts and a smaller, cheaper one for doing curves in 2" material (guitar bodies).

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the "other place 2?" And when you say "one unit per machine" -- what does that mean?

 

[Spectric]

what is the "other place 2?"

Let's just say it is somewhere not as nice as here and from what I have picked up either deserters or where the unwashed gather ! !

If you are not electrically minded / qualified you do not want to start playing with inverting 230 single phase into 230 three phase and would need an electrician at additional cost.

 

[Ttrees]

If the difference between a compact 18 to 20" machine and a premium 20"/500mm one
is gonna matter, then it sounds to me like you only have space for one bandsaw.
Could get something very good and clean for bit over half your budget.

Cannot speak about other rival UK woodworking forums here, but seemingly alright to talk about the creek or other forums overseas.
Its a UK woodworking forum which has the number 2 at the end.
There's only three, here, the other similarly named one which has no activity in years,
and the one that is quiet which you can get that document from.

One VFD/inverter per machine.
Hundred quid all in, (provided you can knock up a sheet metal box to protect from dust or from getting a knock)

Tom

 

[Ttrees]

Let's just say it is somewhere not as nice as here and from what I have picked up either deserters or where the unwashed gather ! !

If you are not electrically minded / qualified you do not want to start playing with inverting 230 single phase into 230 three phase and would need an electrician at additional cost.

Everything is well documented, I don't see an issue.
Yes those VFD's provide lethal power, even after being unplugged for some time,
You touch'a those wires input OUTPUT terminals you might die !
DON'T YOUTUBE IT!
Very simple otherwise, no need for a sparkie,
and by that I mean an electrical technician, and not your everyday sparkie.

7 wires involved, provided you copy good articles, easy (of which is not like sharpening thread and knowledgeable folks agree on)
it's how to program the brain of the motor is what you need to learn,
which might take a few days to learn.

With a familiar drive and not some random one can simplify things
regarding programming, but twice the cost.
Some suggest doing so anyway,and with 2k budget, affordable.
Hitachi spec's maybe higher again.

Don't bog the machine down using one,
and make sure the machine has heavy wheels to do the work.

Plenty of stuff here should you look up some VFD 's / Inverters
tomato/tomato.

With a decent setup in the shed electrics wise
about the only thing to argue about might be....

A premium VFD/inverter rated like Hitachi thinking.
A better sealed enclosure which for a bandsaw may not be as important to some
Better rated cable insulation (fancier cable) makes sense.
And a proper coat hanger for the VFD for serviceability matters,
and not bolts fished into small confinements without having a tap at the least, lol!

Trying to start a row isn't easy regarding these,
but I tried about as best I can just now

You need to read Bob's induction motor google document.

Ps this VFD/Inverter stuff might only make sense for someone not looking to
get a equally spec planer thicknesser (two motors) ....
plus dust extraction running also.
Time for the sparkie then

Then you might be thinking...
So you coulda changed out the motor for single phase,
but some food for thought is the starting current of single phase compared to easy start (adjustable to suit supply) dual voltage motor running via VFD
might not trip the breaker whilst your extraction is running also,
should you upgrade that to something like a cyclone.

Others can talk about that, it's a question in itself.

The VFD would get you by until you move, and you'd have a better machine
which you can tip about with a single finger, for the most part
should you do things the easy way.

Just don't place a fulcrum on the column and make use of the base
rather than rendering it useless should it not have total contact with the floor.
A machine like this can roll, even when nearly horizontal
If the base doesn't stay on the ground throughtout.!
DAMHIK
Just place nothing beneath the machine as in below and you will be fine
i.e no fence post under that column,

as there likely will be a ridge up the centre slightly evident in some transport wear (if you use just fenceposts for sliding horizontally to transport and have cheap paint)

So no fulcrums whilst tipping, and plonk upright on a good floor,
near a wall or whatever, as if the floor is terrible it might shake about a bit
As floor standing bandsaws are somewhat tippy things.

Get at least one dolly if moving horizontally for something weighing 300kg,
that will be difficult otherwise.

All the best
Tom

 

[CMax]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation and into/tips, Tom. It's a lot to consider, but I shall take onboard all you have said. It might be a bit too daunting for me so I'll have to consider whether all this would be worth the financial savings.

With regards to the space and two bandsaw issues, the second one will be going on the end of an inbuilt workbench so no extra loss in floorspace. It's also so I can avoid having to swap blades (I know myself: any extra faff would likely lead to either putting work off or using the wrong blade for the wrong operation and buggering things up).

That said, I have not researched the sizes for all bandsaws in my range so I suppose I shouldn't rule out a larger capacity machine if its floor space isn't that much bigger. Either way, lots to consider!

 

[Ttrees]

Keep an eye on the bay, something like an N4400 or a compact 20" Eastern flavour which you'd want to see running, would suit just nicely by the sounds of it for just north of a grand, or less if willing to wait or travel.

Good luck
Tom

 

[Ttrees]

Still there, presumably something wrong with it.
Maybe it just looks so?
It aint far, bit large though, as is the other Italian one for very cheap.
I think this one would scrub up well, if it'll run smooth.

 

[Bob008]

Hi chaps,

So, I'm looking to buy a big-ish bandsaw, probably a startrite 352 / Jet 16" or similar. I'm mostly looking at the used market for these and have spotted a few I'm interested in, however, I have no idea how I would go about collecting something this heavy. I'll also have to move it in a few months as I'm moving house. Are there companies that specialise in moving these kind of machines? If I were to hire a van and do it myself, how I would handle the pallet aspect?

Also, some of these larger machines are 3-phase and I only have single phase (30-amp circuit). I've seen various mention on here about converting to single phase with inverters. I can just about wire a plug and know virtually nothing about electrical stuff. How difficult/expensive is it to convert a 3 phase? What would I need, and how do I know if a given bandsaw is able to be converted? Any help on that would be great.

Thanks!

I’ve just sold a startrite 352 240v and it was easy to move it’s around 130kg the bloke who bought it strapped it to a trolley and made a ramp out of two planks then we just wheeled it into the back of his small van and left strapped to the trolley

 

[ScottandSargeant]

Have a look out for used Minimax S45… very good saw, usually 1 ph and often under valued!

 

[Seascaper]

Hello,
Sounds to me like you need some advice, forget about three phase, and buying two band saws, if your budget is £2000 and moving house I suggest here what to do...
Wait until you have moved, buy a nice large Laguna and have it delivered, what could be easier. The Laguna will do everything.
All the best
Regards

 

[clogs]

C max....
there's a firm that advertises in homeworkshop.org that specialises in moving that kinda gear about the country for us hobbyists.......never heard a bad thing about em....."ladymovers" I think...
they use for sure at least 1 modified pick-up with hydraulic crane fitted.....
for the diy'er there's always stuff like a transit luton with a tail lift...cheap hire at weekends....????
U and a couple of friends will be able to move one around on a home made trolley....
for rough pathes 2 8x4 sheets of ply would smooth way...
ONLY DANGER is it v/very top heavy but if ur prepared no trouble....
also there's a recomended (modelengineering forum) firm Nott's way that supply qual inverters, I believe they will do the main wiring set up for u....pre delivered....
Subject to my solar panel plans I will need at least 8 VFD's....and the guy above will get first shout at supplying....

 

[Ttrees]

Buy a laguna cyclone and a 3 phase bandsaw with the change
Its nearer 3 grand for an 18bx nowadays.
Edit: Dang it aint cheap for a cyclone either!

 

[CMax]

Have a look out for used Minimax S45… very good saw, usually 1 ph and often under valued!

Funny you should say that. I may have found a candidate on this saw but just working out collection options.

I’ve just sold a startrite 352 240v and it was easy to move it’s around 130kg the bloke who bought it strapped it to a trolley and made a ramp out of two planks then we just wheeled it into the back of his small van and left strapped to the trolley

Thanks for that, Bob. That’s good to know it was that easy.

Hello,
Sounds to me like you need some advice, forget about three phase, and buying two band saws, if your budget is £2000 and moving house I suggest here what to do...
Wait until you have moved, buy a nice large Laguna and have it delivered, what could be easier. The Laguna will do everything.
All the best
Regards

My dad suggested the same thing. It’ll only be a couple of months but I can be an impatient bugger… and the Laguna saws do seem to have a great spec for the money.

C max....
there's a firm that advertises in homeworkshop.org that specialises in moving that kinda gear about the country for us hobbyists.......never heard a bad thing about em....."ladymovers" I think...
they use for sure at least 1 modified pick-up with hydraulic crane fitted.....
for the diy'er there's always stuff like a transit luton with a tail lift...cheap hire at weekends....????
U and a couple of friends will be able to move one around on a home made trolley....
for rough pathes 2 8x4 sheets of ply would smooth way...
ONLY DANGER is it v/very top heavy but if ur prepared no trouble....
also there's a recomended (modelengineering forum) firm Nott's way that supply qual inverters, I believe they will do the main wiring set up for u....pre delivered....
Subject to my solar panel plans I will need at least 8 VFD's....and the guy above will get first shout at supplying....

Cheers clogs. That’s really helpful. I’ll get in touch and see what’s what.

 

[Ttrees]

Seems like good machines by the looks of it.
With that money the next step up might be something like this particular Centauro...
The shafts of the wheels are likely heavier, maybe 30mm?
(the bearings will tell you in the manuals of any machine you see, and maybe the difference between choosing one or the other, as upper wheel assembly will likely match any wheel shaft difference)
which was on the bay for a while as it was easily 500 quid too pricey for three phase, and if possibly without original fence, more so.
Tis clean looking though.
(although flat tire profile/ and also likely grooved wheels, might be worth noting, small beans in the scheme of things for someone who's willing to work on that)

Might be a bit too big, certainly the sweet spot in size to me,
and a Eastern 20" might have a bit less footprint.
Not much though, maybe 2 or 3" larger, not ever seen in person to compare.
The Italian machines have larger columns, more space around the wheels and often but not always larger tables compared.

Just giving some insight on pricing, should you not be sure of what you can get for the money.

All the best

 

[CMax]

Thanks for that Tom. That seems a pretty decent price. I've found a few interesting candidates in addition to the Centauro, including an SCM S45N, a sale price on an ACM Esperto 440, sale price on a Laguna 14/12 (and BX), and, perhaps inappropriate and overkill: a 24" ACM Star 600 Single Phase! I'm definitely erring more toward the cleaner 2nd-hand units. I have to be honest, I don't have a huge desire for any kind of restoration. It's just not something I want to handle.

If I buy new (sale price), the companies will deliver and obviously provide a warranty. If I buy a second-hand,
I can potentially get a bigger/better saw, but I have to figure out if I can move it by renting a van, or paying for a hauler. I'm waiting on quotes for the latter.

Other new options are the iTech BS400 (Startrite clone), and if I can accept a smaller capacity, the Sabre 350, which appeals mostly because of the cost and warranty, but it's quite clearly the most flimsy of all these options and has awful dust collection.