Buying a fully electric used car

[Croolis]

Sooner or later (maybe sooner) I need to replace my old Focus Mk2. I like it, though it's been a money pit. Does the things I need it to do, namely be a bit of a workhorse with boot space and a towbar for light towing of light boats.

I don't have much disposable income. I am looking at buying a Hyundai Ioniq electric 2020-2022 (not an Ioniq 5) with ~30k on it for £12k.

I'd be doing a loan for it (bank, not finance). I have worked out that, based on the amount of cash I throw into that Focus to keep it running: fuel, tax/ins and repairs (averaged on what I've spent on repairs so far), I could spend just about the same money annually and have the Hyundai.

As long as it doesn't break down (much) over the four- five years I'll be paying off the loan. Which is the risky bit. I will struggle if it becomes a money pit.

The other aspects of it that are challenging based on my use (range isn't one) - boot space, reduced range while towing, I am prepared to live with. It's the reliability.

I know nobody can tell me my car won't break down, but how do we feel about low mileage used electrics? Anyone got any experiences they want to share?

 

[Geoff_S]

I’ve had my VW e-Golf for 5 years now. 21k miles. Zero problems and range as good as the day I bought it.

 

[Sideways]

Radio 4 yesterday.
"You and Yours"
The brightest, sparkling, 80 year old rang in and sang the praises of her electric. She was the best sales person for EVs you could possibly imagine and I think hers was a Hyundai.
2 callers from Wales both described their areas an EV charging desert, and the programs invited "expert" did the cause no favours by trying to pretend that EVs didn't lose significant range in the winter time.
One of my own buddies is on his second, small battery Mazda model. They love it and even with a design range of sub 200 miles it's torquey, good acceleration and all that good stuff.

And buying used, I'd rather buy electric.
Imagine the bad driver that crash the gears, thrash the engine, drive in the wrong gear, slip the clutch, yada yada. All that can make a mess of mechanics but an electric will be pretty immune because those parts don't exist and a load of electronics are making sure you don't overload the motors.

 

[Spectric]

In your position I would not want to take a gamble on something but saying that modern cars are just money pits so either way there is risk. For me I would go petrol or diesel as then you are not tied to a main dealer for repairs and servicing and there are plenty of people to fix ICE vehicles compared to EV or hydrid. The issues today do seem to be electronic's, having had two motors both returned to the dealer because of faults with the electronics I thought an old Honda CRV would be better until the clutch failed, I had overlooked the DMF or dual mass flywheel which gets replaced with the clutch so even mechanical jobs cost a fortune.

 

[Tris]

What is the battery life? Looked at a few hybrids earlier this year and the lifespan was around 8 years. This would give us about 3 years remaining at our budget until the car would be BER. Would hope the fully electric would be better than that but worth digging in to

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Current reports indicate that battery degradation is typically ~2% pa, and rarely, unless seriously abused, do they suffer major failures.

Most other EV components are simpler (motor) than ICE or very similar - long term reliability may be rather better, offset by the relative immaturity of EV control and power components.

Severe EV battery degradation is generally warranted for 7-10 years - I would suggest you understand with any EV you buy (a) how much warranty remains, (b) that the intended purchase is still covered, and (c) what you need to do in the future (eg: annual inspections).

Ability to charge at home and maybe access cheap overnight rates may be important.

I have just upgraded my car and chose petrol, despite fully supporting EV as the medium or long term future. The reasons relate to an accumulation of small issues, not one large one:

• range would be an issue a few times a year - a relatively long range large battery model would challenge affordability
• we do the occasional European trip - charging issues and prices are a bit of an unknown
• current low EV sales and rapidly evolving technology could leave model specific spares hard to source in a few years time (if needed)
• evolving technology (eg: battery chemistry) could impact model obsolescence making s/h value vulnerable if ever sold
• risks associated with ICE are limited - spares back up, trained technicians, fuel stations etc etc will be common for at least the next 10 years. Their decline will then set in!

Costs rely upon government policy. Current preferential treatment of EVs, and cheap charging is unlikely to last indefinitely - possibly only until the transition to RV is effectively unstoppable. Road charging is a likely revenue raising method to replace fuel duties on ICE as they decline.

 

[Lons]

You should be able to get a cheap Ford EV as they aren't selling and are making thousands of EU and UK workers redundant, according to tonight's news though the company has been struggling for some time.

 

[ps.harris80]

You should investigate all the hidden costs of owning a EV

Insurance is significantly higher than IC

Should it go wrong repair cost are phenomenal with with no third party spares available everything has to come from a main dealer.

Should spares be needed you will find that they are rarer than hens teeth, as all parts made are supplied to the production line, so expect months of waiting for even simple parts to be in stock at the main dealer.

Be prepared for a write off even for minor damage if involved in even a minor accident. Because insurance companies are not paying out for curtesy cars for 6 months whilst they wait for a new wing or number cover to arrive.

Also with new EV sales collapsing worldwide, now might not be the best time to invest.

 

[Spectric]

Most other EV components are simpler (motor) than ICE or very similar - long term reliability may be rather better, offset by the relative immaturity of EV control and power components.

These motors are quiet complex often with gearing and lubrication built in and not cheap. The drive control is complex and is not a simple VFD attached to the pedal and they use complex vector control to give maximum torque, all good until it goes wrong but these motor control systems have been around a while just not in vehicles so a lot of the electronics is proven, just not in the automotive enviroment.

 

[Sideways]

The drive control is complex and is not a simple VFD attached to the pedal and they use complex vector control to give maximum torque, all good until it goes wrong but these motor control systems have been around a while just not in vehicles so a lot of the electronics is proven, just not in the automotive enviroment.

Just an observation : six out of the eight VFDs powering the machines in my workshop use vector control to boost low speed torque. These control systems have indeed been around for a while and are well proven. They are even used in electric skateboards

 

[ThornOfCamorr]

As an alternative, can you get an EV via salary sacrifice? Octopus EV now even offers used ones via that scheme. (I think they also offer private leasing now). Advantage is that the leasing rate reduces your taxable income. With octopus, leasing rate also includes insurance, any repairs, tyres and they pay for the charger install. I’m not an expert but it seems to me that leasing is less of a risk than bank loan in case you total the car.

 

[Spectric]

six out of the eight VFDs powering the machines in my workshop use vector control

I think once you understand the complexity of modern motor control then you also know why these VFD's are not cheap and that there is not much difference in running a three phase motor from a three phase supply compared to a three phase motor running via an electronic drive except the amount of power available. The downside with many VFD's running machinery motors is that they do not have true rotor positional feedback or phase currents and derive these from back emf.

This diagram gives an idea about the vector control system with Space Vector Modulation to create the sine wave using pulse width modulation.

 

[Sean33]

Sooner or later (maybe sooner) I need to replace my old Focus Mk2. I like it, though it's been a money pit. Does the things I need it to do, namely be a bit of a workhorse with boot space and a towbar for light towing of light boats.

I don't have much disposable income. I am looking at buying a Hyundai Ioniq electric 2020-2022 (not an Ioniq 5) with ~30k on it for £12k.

I'd be doing a loan for it (bank, not finance). I have worked out that, based on the amount of cash I throw into that Focus to keep it running: fuel, tax/ins and repairs (averaged on what I've spent on repairs so far), I could spend just about the same money annually and have the Hyundai.

As long as it doesn't break down (much) over the four- five years I'll be paying off the loan. Which is the risky bit. I will struggle if it becomes a money pit.

The other aspects of it that are challenging based on my use (range isn't one) - boot space, reduced range while towing, I am prepared to live with. It's the reliability.

I know nobody can tell me my car won't break down, but how do we feel about low mileage used electrics? Anyone got any experiences they want to share?

I was in a similar position,I thought 2nd hand values seemed very compelling. Fortunately I have a friend in the trade, his response was do not do it. When I asked why the following reasons were given
- most have been ex company cars, charging should be done as manufacturer says, I doubt most people have done that which leads to enhanced degradation of the battery
- servicing and parts, very expensive, quite often something you think will be simple will result in a whole new bigger part, which are very hard to get hold of and extremely pricey
- although you are buying something where you think most of the devaluation has occurred, he didn’t think it had

What he did say though is, if you are dead set on one, for heaven’s sake rent it with service insurance etc all in the monthly price and you can simply give it back after 3-4 years

Hope that helps

 

[RonnieI]

You should investigate all the hidden costs of owning a EV

Insurance is significantly higher than IC

Should it go wrong repair cost are phenomenal with with no third party spares available everything has to come from a main dealer.

Should spares be needed you will find that they are rarer than hens teeth, as all parts made are supplied to the production line, so expect months of waiting for even simple parts to be in stock at the main dealer.

Be prepared for a write off even for minor damage if involved in even a minor accident. Because insurance companies are not paying out for curtesy cars for 6 months whilst they wait for a new wing or number cover to arrive.

Also with new EV sales collapsing worldwide, now might not be the best time to invest.

With regard to parts availability, a friend of mine bought a Jaguar iPace new last year with the intention of keeping it until it (or he) finally died. After 3 months the battery would only charge to 40% so it was replaced after a wait of nearly 6 months. This replacement battery will now only charge to 60% and he's been quoted a wait time of a further 8 months for a replacement. I think he should return the car for a full refund since it's obviously not fit for purpose.

 

[selectortone]

My daughter has been driving company EVs (a Kia and a Seat) for three years and she absolutely loves them. She travels for work and has never had a problem with charging even in deepest Wales, but she is a good planner. She's happy to sit with a coffee and her laptop for 40 minutes at a services; it means less work when she gets home.

If you have off road parking and can install an accessible home charger go for it. My next daily driver will be an EV. For the typical weekly mileage I do it would be perfect. So far, price has been the only thing stopping me.

 

[paulrbarnard]

As an alternative, can you get an EV via salary sacrifice? Octopus EV now even offers used ones via that scheme. (I think they also offer private leasing now). Advantage is that the leasing rate reduces your taxable income. With octopus, leasing rate also includes insurance, any repairs, tyres and they pay for the charger install. I’m not an expert but it seems to me that leasing is less of a risk than bank loan in case you total the car.

I looked into this a couple of months ago but even with benifits as a high rate tax payer the net was higher than I could get direct from a main dealership

 

[fleyh]

As long as it doesn't break down

When you select a specific EV model (before making a purchase):
- Call your local garages to check if they can repair and service the vehicle. I've heard that in some areas, people struggle to find a car mechanic for their EV or the price is not reasonable
- Get an insurance quote to see if the price is acceptable to you

 

[Vulcan]

Also with new EV sales collapsing worldwide, now might not be the best time to invest.

They aren’t.

 

[MikeJhn]

And buying used, I'd rather buy electric.
Imagine the bad driver that crash the gears, thrash the engine, drive in the wrong gear, slip the clutch, yada yada. All that can make a mess of mechanics but an electric will be pretty immune because those parts don't exist and a load of electronics are making sure you don't overload the motors.

Sounds just like an ICE automatic would be immune to all of those objections as well.

 

[Vulcan]

Sounds just like an ICE automatic would be immune to all of those objections as well.

That’s true. But I wouldn’t entertain a used automatic myself. Many auto boxes are very complex and horrendously expensive to repair. A lightly used one with an extended warranty might change my mind if I wasn’t keen on an BEV.