Buffing system all systems are GO!!!

[stevebuk]

i need members on here to tell me what they think of the chestnut buffing system for bowls, and how do you use it.

i recently acquired a system as a present from the wife and duly went into the cabin tonight to try it out, all excited i was.

I had made a bowl a few days ago and thought this would be prime for the treatment, so having read the instructions i mounted the mandrel into my sorby chuck and span it to check for straightness, it wobbled, i faffed around with it for ages trying to get it to spin level, it just wouldn't.

So, i then put the first buffer into the mandrel and it wouldn't screw all the way home, there was 1/2 inch of play between the mandrel end and the screw on the back of the buffer( i dont know if this is correct).

Anyhow i fired up the lathe and increased the speed to 650rpm (speed not mentioned in the manual)put on the first compound and started on the bowl, it was easy enough to do and duly moved through the buffers(still with play on 2 wheels).

I came to the carnuba wheel and stick and i really waited for this immense shine to appear from the wood, but alas it wasn't to be, yes there was a shine, but not as much as if i used friction polish, so i started all over again with the same bowl, and i must admit i am not convinced it was a worthwhile buy at the moment.

i understand i have never used one before , and it is probably the way i did it, but i sure hope its going to get better.

Need to go back into the cabin now and hoover up all the linen all over the lathe, floor, walls jacket, trousers etc, ect..

tell me i'm wrong..

 

[tekno.mage]

Your experience doesn't sound quite right. I have the Chestnut buffing system and my mandrel doesn't wobble when mounted in either of my cheap chinese copy of a Vicmarc 100 chuck, or in my original Vicmarc one. I presume you are using the long mandel, not the short one intended for use in an electric drill?

Your experience of a 1/2" play between the end of the mandel and the buffing wheel also does not sound right. All 3 of my wheels fit tight up to the end of the mandrel with only hand-tightening. Have you tried tightening the wheel onto the mandrel using an allen key rather than by hand?

Perhaps you should drop Chestnut an email about your problems (assuming Terry from Chestnut doesn't read this in the meantime and reply to you on here!)

Regarding actually using the system and achieving a shine on the wood - so far I have mostly used my system with pale wood, so miss out the first brown compound to avoid staining the piece - but I have always used the system after applying some kind of finish to the wood first - either a coat of sanding sealer, or of lacquer (melamine or acrylic) or several coats of oil such as Osmo oil.

After doing this and ensuring the finish really is dry before buffing, I've found that using the white compound alone will bring up a really good shine on the item. You do need to be a bit patient if you only use the white compound and want to remove streaks/brush-marks/other slight defects from the finish as well. With a dark wood this will happen quite quickly at the brown compound stage as the brown is more abrasive than the white.

I personally use the third wheel to buff up Renaissance wax which I've applied by hand, rather than to apply carnuba wax, but I imagine the look after final buffing would be similar - and I've always achieved a very high degree of shine on the items I've buffed, although I'd say that when buffed an oil finish has a deep satin look to it and to achieve a gloss to rival friction polish you probably do need to be buffing a lacquer or sanding sealer finish.

If you are using the system on totally unfinished wood, I'd imagine the degree of shine would be very dependant on the wood you are using - I'd expect a better shine from say unfinished boxwood or one of the hard exotics than from oak or ash.

Regarding speed - I tend to tweak that to suit the item - running the wheel at a slower speed so it will deform around a complicated shape (you then need to buff for longer) and faster giving a "harder" wheel for simpler shapes which buffs things up a bit quicker.

tekno.mage

 

[Terry Smart]

Hi Steve

I'm sorry to hear your experience with the kit didn't match your expectation. Until now, feedback on the system has been universally positive, hopefully we can restore that...

Thanks tekno.mage for your comments, all of which I'd agree with.
To add a bit more, some of which might be stating the obvious for which I apologise in advance, I want to be as comprehensive as possible (who said verbose?)

When you're saying the mandrel wobbled I assume it was held tight but wouldn't run straight/true?
The mandrel is designed to be gripped on either the wide or narrower part, depending on the jaws you are using. Either is acceptable, gripping on the narrower part will give greater clearance from the chuck.
It can be awkward to centre the mandrel, the best way is to insert the mandrel and grip it ' finger tight', bring up a live centre in the tailstock and centre the threaded hole into it. Then tighten it all the way and move the tailstock away. (Take out the live centre too, they're sharp when you catch your hand on them - voice of experience!).

The screw on the wheel should go all the way into the mandrel. From your description the wheel is held tight - apparently (according to an engineer I spoke to) the bolt only needs to go in to a depth 1.5 times the diameter of the thread. The mandrel can be used as is, certainly for the time being.
It sounds as though a bit of swarf has fouled the thread which is stopping the bolt from going all the way in. We check all of the mandrels before they leave us but perhaps some swarf has moved from the back of the hole where it didn't matter to further up where it does.
We're happy to replace the mandrel for you if you wish; if you're keen to get on with trying the system more you could try cleaning the mandrel, by immersing it in solvent (petrol is apparently best for this but white spirit will work just as well); agitiate it slightly and any bits should free themselves and come out. I accept that you shouldn't have to do this but this is a quick-and-simple-fix.
(Part of the problem is that this is a blind hole; when it is drilled there is nowhere for the removed parts to go; they are cleaned thoroughly but there is always the slim chance something might get stuck inside. That's why we check them, although we rarely encounter a problem; this one must have slipped through).

As tekno.mage says, the system (and all others of its type) is designed to buff a finish, not bare wood. You can get a shine on bare wood but not much of one.
(From our range you can buff Finishing Oil, Hard Wax Oil, all of the lacquers, Friction Polish and any of the sealers. You can use Microcrystalline Wax instead of the Carnuaba Stick.)

If you're using the red/brown compound you need to apply a fairly liberal amount to get the desired effect. The white one should be used sparingly and the stick wax even more sparingly.

I hope that helps; it would be helpful to know how your bowl had been finished before you brought it to the Buffing System.

Oh, and after you've used the wheels a couple of times the amount of bits of cotton they shed reduces to virtually none at all. Sadly that's the nature of the beast.

Please keep us posted on how you get on, if you need to change the mandrel please pm me.

 

[como]

Hi Steve,

I came across this youtube video on buffing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vpJS5IEOE&feature=player_embedded

I don't know if the buffing system he is using is anything like yours, but the information he gives seems pretty comprehensive.

Hope this helps

Mark

 

[stevebuk]

right folks. thank you very much for the input Tekno, really found it useful. Thank you also como for the video which i have now watched and carried out the same procedure.

Thank you Terry for your input also, i have now been out to the cabin and using white spirit cleaned out all the swarf from the threads, all wheels now fully lock home.
I have also put the fatter part of the mandrel into the chuck and now all is steady and level.

I redid the same bowl as last night (which incidentally already had a finish on it before i first started) and all seems well after revving up the lathe some more, now i get the shine so all is well.. :lol: :lol:

thank you guys, and Tekno.. :lol: :lol:

 

[CHJ]

Steve, Glad you are making progress on the buffing front, it really does make the world of difference to finishing once you have developed a proceedure that suits you.
Most of my work recently has just been sealed with Cellulose sanding sealer and buffed using the White (Diamond) Wheel and then waxed (Canauba or Microcrystaline) the only time I use the Brown (Tripoli) Wheel is if I've made a fist of applying the sealer and left ridges, runs etc. or found that anoying rogue bit of grain that has decided to show its face when I thought I had finished the piece :roll:

The Sealer or really dry (cured) oil usually comes up with a high shine even before applying any wax finish which I regard just as a protective layer.

I vary the the speed of the mops anywhere between 750-1200 RPM (approx) dependant upon the form of the piece and the need to let the mop flex in and around the nooks and crannies.

I'm very surprised that your Sorby chuck would not grip the smaller section and run true, I've only seen this problem with a couple of small 'cheap' chucks that had serrated gripper jaws, might be worth giving the chuck a birthday treat cleanup of the Scroll.

 

[stevebuk]

Thanks chas, its nice to know how others use their buffers particularly as i have never used one before, but i did see terry demo it at the harrogate show last year.

I just knew it was the way i was doing it because everyone i know who owns one swears by them.

i also look forward to gaining more experience with the buffer and hope to see my stuff shining through.

 

[richburrow]

Buffing system sorted!!!!!!!!!

First up I would like to thank everyone who has chipped in to help MadDog out on this one. The system is great, I am sure he is with me and would recomending it to anyone.
We had some fun with a syc platter/bowl last week. This evening amongst other things we gave it a buff

This pic will not help but steve has promised to take some proper pics. It is not perfect but we had fun :lol:

 

[Paul.J]

Glad it's sorted Rich/Steve
Can't wait to give mine a go when i get the chance

 

[gasmansteve]

Thanks for this thread Steve I have been thinking of treating myself to one of these buffing sets for a while think I`ll take the plunge now :lol:
Steve
Ps I don`t seem to get the shine from Renaissance wax that others get guess its just me!