Bringing goods from the EU

[Mark Hancock]

It is highly unlikely that the end of free movement will lead to any meaningful change in the housing situation. If anything in the event there was a drop in the housing market caused by a sudden rush of departures then it's likely the government would move to shore up those prices via other mechanisms.

Recent reports this last week with regard to Hong Kong and ex-pats on the continent looking to return home would suggest an increase in house prices through increased demand.

 

[RobinBHM]

Nothing to do with distrust or disliking them at all. I have many foreign friends around the world and in Europe, I love them, but it doesn't mean I want them to have freedom to come live and work here.

I know its a damn nuisance having all those EU nurses coming here looking after our elderly.....they arent the right kind of people.

Thank goodness the toxic brexit environment made 10,000 of them go back home.

 

[RobinBHM]

That in turn will help (not solve, it needs more than just that) the housing crisis that is preventing me and my friends and family from being able to afford to buy a house.

immigration is not a cause of the housing issue, so ending free movement wont solve it.

the free market neo liberal ideology needs high immigration to feed it...so the reality is that UK governments want high immigration but simultaneously tell the public they are tough on immigration.

You need to dig a little deeper to find out why you and your friends cant afford to buy a house

 

[Jacob]

........

You need to dig a little deeper to find out why you and your friends cant afford to buy a house

Fiscal policy first - makes property a good investment especially for the very rich even if it stays empty. Good for dodgy mega rich - Russian oligarchs, dodgy money sources etc somewhere to secure it.
In turn it increases rents as another return on investment.
Incentives to buy-to-let increases profitability.
Planning windfall profits go to the developer not the community.
Absence of house building policy creates a shortage.
Sale of council houses inflates market - owners get better off, tenants get worse off and end up excluded from buying.
Basically "a perfect storm" of pressure on house prices - deliberately contrived by governments as electoral bribe, for half the community.
Easy to reverse except for massive negative equity trap which will lose votes, so maybe a bubble which will burst anyway. Hasn't done since about 1970 except for little hiccups - 2007 etc soon forgotten.
And so on....
PS Immigrants could become part of the solution as building workers, fairly obviously IMHO. There are no positives about brexit.

 

[Rorschach]

It is highly unlikely that the end of free movement will lead to any meaningful change in the housing situation. If anything in the event there was a drop in the housing market caused by a sudden rush of departures then it's likely the government would move to shore up those prices via other mechanisms.

Housing in the UK has become expensive because it's been made artificially scarce by a variety of government policies since the 50's.

A policy which reversed that artificial scarcity, and drove prices down would be politically very uncomfortable for any government, who would alienate a lot of people, and potentially create a negative equity crisis.

So until the majority of UK voters don't own their own home, and a party identifes that as a strategy which will allow them to win, it's most likely that we will continue to see successive governments come out with grand sounding but ultimately quite small and ineffective plans on housing.

So odds on, you will just have to wait it out until the political calculus changes.

It might, it might not, but it's one factor for certain and it's not just the housing situation, that was an example, jobs is another one that affects people I know.

 

[Rorschach]

You ask for a reason, I gave one, just because you don't like the reason doesn't mean it isn't a valid viewpoint.

 

[Jacob]

It might, it might not, but it's one factor for certain and it's not just the housing situation, that was an example, jobs is another one that affects people I know.

Immigrants create work and hence more jobs. This has always been the case in all expanding economies everywhere. The idea that they steal jobs is nonsense.

 

[Jake]

It's the same fallacy as leads to austerity - treating an economy as something fairly fixed like a household.

 

[Rorschach]

Immigrants create work and hence more jobs. This has always been the case in all expanding economies everywhere. The idea that they steal jobs is nonsense.

Go ask my mate who was a labourer and was replaced by a Pole if he created a job or had his job stolen.

 

[Jacob]

Go ask my mate who was a labourer and was replaced by a Pole if he created a job or had his job stolen.

Did he get the sack? What were the details?
What about the other three freedoms? Don't they take over jobs in the same way?
What about all these Bangladeshis coming here and taking over our Indian restaurant industry?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_of_British_Bangladeshis

 

[Rorschach]

Did he get the sack? What were the details?

His boss made everyone redundant (I am not 100% sure if they were contracted etc) saying the business wasn't viable. They then found he set up again with Polish workers doing the exact same work for less pay. Now you may say that it's the boss that was the problem, and I could see that point of view, but he was only able to do that because the workers were available to do it.

 

[Jacob]

Did he get the sack? What were the details?

His boss made everyone redundant (I am not 100% sure if they were contracted etc) saying the business wasn't viable. They then found he set up again with Polish workers doing the exact same work for less pay. Now you may say that it's the boss that was the problem, and I could see that point of view, but he was only able to do that because the workers were available to do it.

Stories get kicked around (mainly by N Farage) but you don't have to believe them.

 

[Jelly]

You ask for a reason, I gave one, just because you don't like the reason doesn't mean it isn't a valid viewpoint.

"A valid viewpoint" is a whole can of worms.

You're perfectly entitled to believe that, and you're equally entitled to vote based on your beliefs.

You aren't entitled to not be challenged on whether that viewpoint can be supported by evidence, by someone who holds a different one, or who has access to more or different information than you did when you originally formed the view.

You are of course still entitled to get stroppy about being challenged.

But it doesn't really lend much credence to the idea that your view holds "validity" in the sense of forming an objectively verifiable theory about how the world works.

 

[sploo]

His boss made everyone redundant (I am not 100% sure if they were contracted etc) saying the business wasn't viable. They then found he set up again with Polish workers doing the exact same work for less pay. Now you may say that it's the boss that was the problem, and I could see that point of view, but he was only able to do that because the workers were available to do it.

That's part of the "genius" of the xenophobes; an employer screws over native workers in order to save money by employing cheaper immigrants... and the people blame the immigrants.

 

[doctor Bob]

So what was going wrong then. Bad bosses, immigrants valuing their labour to low, people wanting cheap, exploitation of migrants. Surely it’s a combination of all factors. Bit too easy just to say racism

 

[Jacob]

That's part of the "genius" of the xenophobes; an employer screws over native workers in order to save money by employing cheaper immigrants... and the people blame the immigrants.

And another successful example of a propaganda divided work force, the same people also objecting to unions and imposed wage rates. ....divided we fall.

 

[Jacob]

So what was going wrong then. Bad bosses, immigrants valuing their labour to low, people wanting cheap, exploitation of migrants. Surely it’s a combination of all factors. Bit too easy just to say racism

The blame goes to any identifiable characteristic and nationality or colour are easy to pick on.

 

[doctor Bob]

I dislike militant unions. I pay my guys for 5 days but they work 4 1/2 days. Just treat staff better than you want to be treated. Loyalty is important

 

[doctor Bob]

The blame goes to any identifiable characteristic and nationality or colour are easy to pick on.

Sorry being thick, is that an answer

 

[Jacob]

I dislike militant unions. I pay my guys for 5 days but they work 4 1/2 days. Just treat staff better than you want to be treated. Loyalty is important

Well if everybody did that there'd be no need for Unions!
My grandfather worked as an engineer for Aristoc in Derbyshire (stocking makers). He remembered the general strike. He didn't have to strike because the unions recognised that Aristoc paid good wages and looked after their workers. It's very simple really.