Bringing goods from the EU
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MarkDennehy
Established Member
I'm not sure that statement really sits well with reported news in the UK press:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...ess-anger-over-irish-sea-border-39997279.html
That was this week just gone.
This is earlier, from when the DUP were backing Theresa May (which was not the most stabilising of political arrangements in NI, I think it's fair to say):
https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...shing-meetings-with-senior-loyalists-1739844/
It is somewhat of a long-running pattern that predates recent years though.
Not fully. You'd have no right to vote, for a start.
That's not accurate.
Ireland might be a special case because there's a preexisting Common Travel Area agreement in place, but there are some questions over that because the sheer scale of the changes brexit wrought is so extensive that nobody is completely sure it's not been undermined; removing the foundation of almost forty years of law overnight has too many side effects to be really sure about much.
But within the wider EU, no, there is no CTA and while you don't require a visa today - part of the transition agreement means there's some leeway - you have to have a valid passport and apply for entry with that and what consitutes a valid passport is tighter than you're used to:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/will-i-need-visa-eu-brexit-b1767654.html
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
The UK signed up to the EU following a referendum with an overwhelming majority (66:34). Since then our elected representative signed up to further major changes - in particular Maastricht (1992) and Lisbon (2007).
The 2016 referendum which ultimately took us out of the EU was a major mistake. But we need to make it work as well as we can. There may be pressure to rejoin in the years to come - but it will not happen in this decade!
There are clearly some teething problems - no surprise. The issues were not properly resolved in good time - a few days notice is a complete indictment of the negotiating tactics and process.
However both importers and exporters have failed to understand and complete documentation properly. There was always going to be additional paperwork and customes declatations. Complications associated with VAT were all but inevitable.
To use the first three weeks outside of the EU as the basis for forming or reinforcing opinions is daft. Exit will clearly change supply chains, possibly prices and suppliers - but it would make more sense to assess how it is working in six months when at least some of the anomalies have been resolved.
The 2016 referendum which ultimately took us out of the EU was a major mistake. But we need to make it work as well as we can. There may be pressure to rejoin in the years to come - but it will not happen in this decade!
There are clearly some teething problems - no surprise. The issues were not properly resolved in good time - a few days notice is a complete indictment of the negotiating tactics and process.
However both importers and exporters have failed to understand and complete documentation properly. There was always going to be additional paperwork and customes declatations. Complications associated with VAT were all but inevitable.
To use the first three weeks outside of the EU as the basis for forming or reinforcing opinions is daft. Exit will clearly change supply chains, possibly prices and suppliers - but it would make more sense to assess how it is working in six months when at least some of the anomalies have been resolved.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Just in time delivery means it matters now, not in 6 months.
It seems many small businesses will be closed in 6 months time.
We can, and we need to have an opinion of how things are going currently.
We can also compare this with what we were promised during the last four years.
We can change our minds if things turn out differently 6 months hence.
If things aren't working well in 6 months we will be able to point the finger of blame at all those who voted to leave, and say it's all your fault!
RobinBHM
Established Member
Great post.
temporary: issues will get resolved as businesses get trained and new administration systems get refined
permanent: additional permanent cost increases and technical delays will force business change, either finding new sales, new supply chains, bankruptcy, moving to be inside SM
longer term: who knows but commerce will probably trump ideology and UK will most likely build a closer relationship with the EU
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Who knows? You mean you have no particular expectations of any benefits?
Probably correct - and the question will be raised as to why we put ourselves through the mill (for however long it takes and how much it costs) if we are going to end up in much the same place, but with a diminished reputation, less power, less influence than we ever had
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Phil Pascoe
Established Member
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Potentially sacking staff in the UK, and moving your business operations to an EU nation doesn't exactly sound like a big win for the UK.
I suppose Rees-Mogg would tell parliament they'll be happy because they'll be British Businesses! Just without the staff, or the location. But I guess they at least wouldn't be fish.
MarkDennehy
Established Member
Quite a lot of people in the logistics industry - the people actually driving the trucks, so to speak - have been saying for quite some time that these are not teething problems, but structural ones. That seems worrying.
Also, as bad as things are at the moment, remember that for NI at least, they are still in the three month grace period before full certification checks will be applied on goods coming from GB to NI. So if these are teething problems, either they get resolved rather rapidly, or the UK will watch one of its union suffer food shortages.
I mean, this is the Irish guy telling you this, so the irony meter just punched it's needle out the far side of the case...
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
I don't recall a referendum before we entered, but I was only a kid so wasn't paying too much attention.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
You didn't recall it because it there wasn't one.
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I was reading the other day there was a ref in the mid 70s about continued membership of the EEC. Think there’s only been the two EEC/EU.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Putting effort and emotion into complaining about what has happened is pointless. The battle has been fought (not very well by Remainers) and lost. I don't like it either but get used to it.
There is close to zero chance of re-entry in the next decade. It is likely the Tories will be in control for the next four years.
A new goverment in 1924, if they pursue a policy of re-entry, will need a few years to win a referendum, agree with EU and implement. We are unlikely to get as good a deal as we had before exit.
In 10+ years when we look to see whether it was all worth it, both sides will selectively point to data that proves their point.
As the government have failed to agree success criteria - what does it mean in terms of growth, employment, inflation etc - we will probably never know whether it was a success. In business this would be poor project management.
Nigel Farage formed UKIP in 1992. It took 20+ years to put Brexit on the agenda leading to the referendum. He is a very effective, persuasive communicator (like him or not). Unless utterly overwhelming it will be another 20 years before there is a real prospect of change.
There is close to zero chance of re-entry in the next decade. It is likely the Tories will be in control for the next four years.
A new goverment in 1924, if they pursue a policy of re-entry, will need a few years to win a referendum, agree with EU and implement. We are unlikely to get as good a deal as we had before exit.
In 10+ years when we look to see whether it was all worth it, both sides will selectively point to data that proves their point.
As the government have failed to agree success criteria - what does it mean in terms of growth, employment, inflation etc - we will probably never know whether it was a success. In business this would be poor project management.
Nigel Farage formed UKIP in 1992. It took 20+ years to put Brexit on the agenda leading to the referendum. He is a very effective, persuasive communicator (like him or not). Unless utterly overwhelming it will be another 20 years before there is a real prospect of change.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
By which time we'll have robbed a generation the freedoms and opportunities we had, all so we could reduce our own rights and rot some squid in a lorry.
Well, not Farage's kids obviously; he can get them German passports.
I can see Scotland going it alone and joining the EU
Unlikely the EU would let them join, at least not until they set up their own independent bank and sorted out their debts which could take years.
I don't have a problem with Scottish independence, I don't think it would be good for the people of Scotland though and to be honest it isn't in the interest of the SNP as they would lose their appeal very quickly as rulers of an independent Scotland, their track record on the power they do wield is shameful and they only get away with it because they can blame failings on Westminster.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Oh the irony of replacing Scotland with the UK, the SNP with the Tory Brexiteers, and Westminster with the EU.
RobinBHM
Established Member
Maybe the DUK will rejoin (Dis United Kingdom)
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