RobinBHM
Established Member
That would be mad.....a customs border between England and Scotland.
Bringing goods from the EU
- Thread starter Richard_C
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
- Status
That would be mad.....a customs border between England and Scotland.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
can't wait, got popcorn in for the show already. So looking forward to Danger Mouth and his faithful bumlick the govester using all the brexit remainers reasons to stay in the union. should be lots of fun
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
I know people who were ardent unionists and while they can't stand the SNP will support them until independance, specifically to be an EU member state and free of westmister and the tories
- Joined
- 7 Aug 2003
- Messages
- 7,895
- Reaction score
- 1,319
RobinBHM
Established Member
The answer is easy: financial self interest of a wealthy few.
There tends to be a misconception that the Leave campaign was one group with one ideology.
But Brexit was enabled by a disparate group, made up of:
ideological dinosaurs still clinging to the British Empire (Bill Cash, John Redwood),
financial self interest (Steve Baker, Rees Mogg),
Career self interest (PM, Liz Truss etc),
Disaster capitalists: (Crispen Oden, Farage)
Deregulation: (Richard Tice)
Private Healthcare opportunities with USA: ( take yer pick, Owen Paterson, Hancock etc etc)
Connection to USA libertarian groups (Matthew Elliott)
Climate change deniers / fossil fuel interests (Koch Brothers)
Brexit propaganda sites ( Institute of economic affairs.....and a dozen more
Weirdly they all seems to connect at an address in London: 55 Tufton street.
https://www.desmog.co.uk/2020/02/13...government-and-tufton-street-lobbying-network
Where we are headed in this parliament is: deregulation (banking, tax avoidance, employment rights, healthcare) and a hidden USA deal (albeit ruined by Trump losing)
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Well, there's already a wall, so....
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I'm pretty sure it was the Telegraph that recently had an article complaining that current Brexit problems are all down the government, and are all the things "we Brexiteers" warned them about. I must have been out that day. You know, the one where they were warning about all the problems with Brexit.
Still, full marks for their superb gaslighting.
EDIT: It would be great if the Telegraph could make their minds up though; apparently Brexit would be great, but if they're now implying it's the "fault" of someone then that would rather indicate it's not considered to be a good thing?
Last edited:
RobinBHM
Established Member
Telegraph = broadsheet version of Daily Mail
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Oh I know it smells of excrement wrapped in a thin veneer of fake respectability (whereas the Mail is just excrement), but the logical fallacies and gaslighting over how Brexit is now all the fault of others is hilarious; though, obviously, absolutely entirely and utterly predicted long ago.
Off/back on topic; I had recently been considering buying a Prusa 3D printer. Probably not a good time with Covid etc but just thought I'd check their site:
"Currently we are not accepting UK orders due to Brexit issues."
MarkDennehy
Established Member
Why mad? You've already got one land border between the UK and EU...
MarkDennehy
Established Member
Heh. Sorry, but after the Telegraph's most recent note on the liklihood of how Biden would be favorably disposed towards the UK, I can't help but feel you shouldn't put much faith in their analysis
billw
The Tattooed One
So.... any good news stories emerging about us leaving yet? Is it still a no?
Think you underestimate the significance of the two words "kind of". Churchill never suggested the surrender of individual countries sovereignty to an overarching European Parliament. This is typical of the sort of misinterpretation that is so annoying. The idea was to try and prevent any resurgence of German power, and to present a unified front against communism. The best way to do these things was for all the countries to be members of a club, where differences could be resolved by talking, rather than shooting at one another.Winston Churchill in fact stated at the end of the war "what is needed is in fact a United States of Europe". In fact here is the man's very speech
The Bold is my input
United States of Europe
September 19, 1946. University of Zurich
I wish to speak about the tragedy of Europe, this noble continent, the home of all the great parent races of the Western world, the foundation of Christian faith and ethics, the origin of most of the culture, arts, philosophy and science both of ancient and modern times. If Europe were once united in the sharing of its common inheritance there would be no limit to the happiness, prosperity and glory which its 300 million or 400 million people would enjoy. Yet it is from Europe that has sprung that series of frightful nationalistic quarrels, originated by the Teutonic nations in their rise to power, which we have seen in this 20th century and in our own lifetime wreck the peace and mar the prospects of all mankind.
What is this plight to which Europe has been reduced? Some of the smaller states have indeed made a good recovery, but over wide areas are a vast, quivering mass of tormented, hungry, careworn and bewildered human beings, who wait in the ruins of their cities and homes and scan the dark horizons for the approach of some new form of tyranny or terror. Among the victors there is a Babel of voices, among the vanquished the sullen silence of despair. That is all that Europeans, grouped in so many ancient states and nations, and that is all that the Germanic races have got by tearing each other to pieces and spreading havoc far and wide. Indeed, but for the fact that the great republic across the Atlantic realised that the ruin or enslavement of Europe would involve her own fate as well, and stretched out hands of succour and guidance, the Dark Ages would have returned in all their cruelty and squalor. They may still return.
Yet all the while there is a remedy which, if it were generally and spontaneously adopted by the great majority of people in many lands, would as by a miracle transform the whole scene and would in a few years make all Europe, or the greater part of it, as free and happy as Switzerland is today. What is this sovereign remedy? It is to recreate the European fabric, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, safety and freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple. All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong and to gain as their reward blessing instead of cursing.
Exactly, a co-operating pack. It was perfectly sensible to introduce co-operation in other areas, the Schengen Treaty being a good example. The problem is that it has become increasingly obvious that some want to go way beyond close co-operation. The aim now seems to be to create a literal United States Of Europe, with a single central government. Personally I can't see any of the member states accepting that. The EU desperately needs to reform, the problem being that any meaningful reform would have to be undertaken by the very people who would likely lose their jobs as a result. Not surprisingly they are about as likely to do this as turkeys are to vote for Christmas. It's a great shame as the EU was a great idea, and still can be If they can get a grip of the very clear problems it has. I hope the shock of us leaving will force some real reform, but I doubt it. If another major country leaves, and I suspect France may be next, then the whole thing will fall apart, which would be a great shame.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Happy British Fish!
(yea... no, nada, zilch, nil, nowt, nothing, fornicate all)
If only someone had warned it wasn't a good idea eh?
RobinBHM
Established Member
Like every big organisation, there are some empire builders inside the European Parliament.
But there are also plenty of more moderates wanting a looser Union.
There is also 27 nation states most of which don't want a political union.
"United States of Europe" is a one sided view, part of a Brexiters armoury.
Polling consistency shows EU is popular in pretty much every EU nation, there's no chance of any wanting to leave, esp France.
The problem is the UK media is full of stories claiming "XYZ country on verge of leaving".......usually quoting some unnamed minor politician.
OMG now we're quoting the Daily Mail as a source of indisputable fact, really??
Have to say I'm with Margot from the good life on that one.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Bild Zeitung a couple of weeks ago -
In the end — as Germany’s most respected politician today, Wolfgang Schaeuble, the President of our Bundestag Parliament, admits — the urge is to align fiscal and budget policies. This will centralise the EU to such an extent that not only separate national governments, but even the nations themselves will become a thing of the past, at least in all practical and legal senses.
In the end — as Germany’s most respected politician today, Wolfgang Schaeuble, the President of our Bundestag Parliament, admits — the urge is to align fiscal and budget policies. This will centralise the EU to such an extent that not only separate national governments, but even the nations themselves will become a thing of the past, at least in all practical and legal senses.
Macron won the French election out of nowhere, in an almost Trumpesque upset. He did so on the back of promises he has been unable to fulfil and is now deeply unpopular. Who is waiting in the wings, the likes of Marie Le Penn, right wing nationalists. They have made it very clear that they would seek to leave, so I wouldn't be so sure. Very sadly these sort of right wing politicians are gaining popularity in many countries, and many have similar anti EU views.
I really worry what will happen when Frau Merkel goes. She has been such a towering figure in European politics. Unfortunately she has already run into difficulties at home because of her liberal stance on immigration in particular. Now we have left Germany is by far the largest contributor to the EU, and the right wing there are very vocal in their opposition to what they are as Germany having to prop up other members. I have no idea who will replace Merkel, but it seems a fair bet that it will be someone less liberal than she has been.
- Status
Similar threads
