bow saws and frame saws

[kirkpoore1]

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...
The blades I have been using on version one....

...are bandsaw off-cuts kindly given to me by Ian at Tuffsaws....(thank you so much Ian!)....and I had a large number of options to try...including thin kerf meat and fish ones of huge proportions.

In testing and comparison with Douglas' Gramercy ones, I have come to the conclusion that they are all too aggressive...including the high TPI ones...and this appears to be down to the tooth profile and geometry.

The Gramercy ones, although courser TPI...were easy to start and run....and had a completely different profile.

So...conclusion...yes you can use bandsaw blade offcuts and indeed...these might be suitable for larger, heavier framesaws...but for bowsaws and delicate work...like tenons and dovetails...I feel the correct blades are the only option. Sadly, these are few and far between and inherently more expensive.

More tests will be done on these options.

Cheers

Jimi

Jimi:

First, that's a very nice looking saw. Is there a functional reason you have different knobs on either end, or does it just make it easier to find the right end to cut from?

As for bandsaw blades, I'm glad you've been able to experiment. I use my bowsaw only for cutting curves and for inside cuts, all in materials that are medium to thin (3/4" or less). I've found that unless you use a fairly fine blade (more than 12 teeth per inch), the saw works very roughly in even 3/4" material. This would match your results. However, the 18 tpi blade I usually use cuts pretty well. I'm not expecting finish quality on these cuts, mostly I want to get where a spokeshave or even sanding can quickly get things done.

For tenons, I pretty much stick with my tenon saw. I do use the bowsaw to cut the bottoms out of the dovetail waste, but not the sides. Really, I built the bowsaw to replace the junky coping saws I had before, and it does that very well. To use it to cut thicker stock or long straight lines, I'd probably follow your lead and look for a true bowsaw blade. I imagine it would be possible to refile a bandsaw blade to a different profile, too.

Kirk

 

[bugbear]

First, that's a very nice looking saw. Is there a functional reason you have different knobs on either end, or does it just make it easier to find the right end to cut from?

The "near" handle is a true handle; the "far" handle AKA know is only for rotating the blade in the frame.

The correct grip (as told by Charles Haywood) is shown here:

BugBear

 

[Racers]

Hi, BB

That looks like the knuckle smashing grip! I see the blade is vertical but the cut is curved, how's that work :wink:

Pete

 

[bugbear]

Hi, BB

That looks like the knuckle smashing grip! I see the blade is vertical but the cut is curved, how's that work :wink:

Pete

I suspect the saw was put vertical (via a TINY curved cut) for the photo.

BugBear

 

[pedder]

This might be the correct grip for small bow saws or turning saws. (I don't like that grip one either saw) For the bigger bow saws the handle is the upright part, like seen in the Klausz video.

BTW to saw straight one better uses a wider blade. The thin blades are for ciurved work only. (Not much use in my woodwork)

Cheers PEdder

 

[condeesteso]

yes Pedder, whilst the structure makes us think of them as one, they are quite different I think. I mean the 'Bowsaw' 300mm (12") and the twice size 'framesaw' (600+). I don't think I would go to a 600 for turning cuts at all, but the frame saw has a lot of capabilities.
Personally I am not interested in narrow 'turning' blades in a 600. I am keen to use it for bigger sawing jobs. Hence a wider blade (2 really, a rip and a cross). So I would guess a blade width of 20mm+ would be good for all that.
Therefore, I feel the freedom to hold any way as the cut requires is important in a frame saw, less so in a turning saw perhaps. BBs pic of the correct way for a bowsaw is not necessarily the only way to hold a frame saw, and I feel that for a framesaw to be really good, I need to be able to hold at is the cut requires. Hence the pursuit of a way to lock the blade angle relative to the frame.
Fundamentally, I think this - the best most-used intuitive tools 'fall into the hand'. My Gramercy 12' is without doubt a fine tool, but unless I hold it exactly as BB says, it can fall (frame falling from blade-true). I refuse to accept that in a frame saw.

 

[dedee]

Douglas, your thread has rekindled an idea I had way back to make a frame saw for resawing, ie with the blade in the middle of the frame. I've just started another thread thinking that they may be a specific name for this type of frame saw but perhaps not.

Anyway having searched around again I have come across a couple of blogs that may offer some help.

This one uses a jig of sorts to hold the blade while it is tensioned

http://www.galoototron.com/tag/frame-saw/

And in this one a slot is cut into to the frame to hold the blade square - no use if you want to adjust the angle of course.

http://hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php

I may well have a go at making a Resaw Frame Saw with unglued tenon joints and a slot in the frame to hold the blade square, a Japenese rip cut blade and blade holder from Dieter Schmid with a slotted bolt at the other end of the blade.

Andy