That's some collection of fine looking wood you have there Custard. There's not much I would consider a benefit to living on the mainland... but access to timber half as nice as that is most certainly a biggy.custard":2khgy6su said:
Best way to haggle over timber?
- Thread starter YorkshireMartin
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custard
Established Member
Nelsun":3ski2fr3 said:
Thank you. But I drive to Scotland to source all my Elm, some of the best stuff in the world really isn't all that far from you. 60mm thick big wide boards of Elm for windsor chair seats, beautifully grained 30mm boards that can be book matched into a ten seater Elm dining table from just two boards. In a post Dutch Elm Disease world, you're close to some of the finest remaining Elm timber there is.
And what about Douglas Fir, maybe it's a softwood but it's still one of the most fashionable furniture timbers there is right now, and you've got the really prime stuff right on your doorstep, with small mills and timber yards willing to cut and dry it to your exact specifications.
I appreciate there might not be an abundance of trees out on the islands themselves, but in the UK you never have to travel all that far to find terrific timbers no matter where you live.
Good luck!
EI Rosewood isn't on CITES, so you'll be OK with that. It's sale is controlled by the Indian government. I can still get the stuff relatively cheap if I import it from Spain, much cheaper than any in the UK. It's all pre cut into sawn veneers. It's not Sonokeling.
Braz. Rosewood is on CITES though and that's where things can get very tricky. Moving finished items between EU countries is probably fine. Moving between other countries could prove to be difficult and may result in confiscation, without the required documentation. I suspect that the vast, vast majority are not checked but it's still a risk. All the suppliers of Braz. Rosewood now issue documentation of proof and the date it was purchased. I get the feeling that it's becoming less and less popular because of the risk associated with it. I've no doubt that it still carries a whooping great price as far as guitar sets are concerned. I don't use it myself and have no interest in it. I prefer to use Walnut and of course it's far far cheaper.
Braz. Rosewood is on CITES though and that's where things can get very tricky. Moving finished items between EU countries is probably fine. Moving between other countries could prove to be difficult and may result in confiscation, without the required documentation. I suspect that the vast, vast majority are not checked but it's still a risk. All the suppliers of Braz. Rosewood now issue documentation of proof and the date it was purchased. I get the feeling that it's becoming less and less popular because of the risk associated with it. I've no doubt that it still carries a whooping great price as far as guitar sets are concerned. I don't use it myself and have no interest in it. I prefer to use Walnut and of course it's far far cheaper.
No skills
Established Member
That's some stunning timber there Custard.
If you don't already you should devote some of you business time selling some of your special finds for a good markup.
If you don't already you should devote some of you business time selling some of your special finds for a good markup.
Not far? Try a round trip of 26 hours on an expensive ferry taking in ~450 miles across the North Sea plus however many road miles from Aberdeen to wherever I don't know where to go yetcustard":23329is7 said:
I wouldn't fit much in my hatchback so there'd be the cost of van hire on top of the fortune I'd want to spend filling it. One day perhaps!custard
Established Member
MIGNAL":a5rf5tnb said:
Thanks for the info. I've got a few left over veneers I took off one of those rippled ABW boards. Like these,
This pair is 1360mm x 180mm and 2.7 or 2.8mm thick. If you're ever down in the New Forest pop in the workshop and have a rummage!
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Most of the stuff that Custard has shown would be classed as instrument grade wood. Some of the Braz. Rosewood guitar sets that I've seen offered for sale in the last few years have been pretty poor quality. A lot of it is stump wood. Still carries a crazy price. Prime grade is very rare and obviously carries an even crazier price.
custard":36v3bj1v said:
Not quite the correct size for guitars but there's always an instrument or two that might fit into those specs. Ukulele makers might go for that. It's certainly high grade stuff for sure. I doubt you'll have much problem selling such timber at a decent profit. Many will want it resawn into veneers though. Others will have the capacity to do it themselves.
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
kdampney":gm6ro5tm said:
There's an independent place on Scudamore road I have used. It looks a real dump from the road but the boss is a nice chap. Take cash he likes cash! I don't buy much wood as I get by recycling but when I do this is where I go. I understand whitmores have a good reputation
All my hardwood gets delivered in, £300 order has free delivery. Give them a list of sizes, they give me a lump sum.
BACS or card payment and its here within a week. Never been to their yard to pick through, never had any rubbish
delivered.
I used to use Timbersource from Sheptonmallet, for no reason i now use Devon Hardwoods. If you use a quality
Yard they will deliver a quality product.
A couple of times i have picked up a small order from Devon Hardwoods and its bundled up with my name on it, so
you can't really pick your own out.
For my Tanalised softwood i pop down the road, 6 miles to my supplier, then i will be more choosey as some of this
stuff can be on the rough side. They know me their so its ok, first name terms with most of them. I'm their every week
and spend over a thousand a month.
BACS or card payment and its here within a week. Never been to their yard to pick through, never had any rubbish
delivered.
I used to use Timbersource from Sheptonmallet, for no reason i now use Devon Hardwoods. If you use a quality
Yard they will deliver a quality product.
A couple of times i have picked up a small order from Devon Hardwoods and its bundled up with my name on it, so
you can't really pick your own out.
For my Tanalised softwood i pop down the road, 6 miles to my supplier, then i will be more choosey as some of this
stuff can be on the rough side. They know me their so its ok, first name terms with most of them. I'm their every week
and spend over a thousand a month.
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
sawdust1":2u228at8 said:
I've just looked at timbersource, prices seem kinda high. Devon is opposite end of the country to me unfortunately, but always good to know in case I'm travelling one day.
tomatwark
Established Member
There is the delivery to consider as well, a merchant would rather deliver 1 lot at £2500 instead of 10 lots at £250.
I deal with hand full of suppliers and they know what we will accept and what will be sent back, and also they also know who else I deal with, I find this keeps them in line most of the time and we buy on average 1-2 cubic metres at a go.
But because we work like this and pay our bills on time, when we need a small amount in a hurry our suppliers will help us out.
If your are going into a yard to collect the timber in small amounts and insist on picking through the stock, the price will be higher as the yard will have to pay someone to help you while you try to get what you want.
If you go to a corner shop and buy a tin of beans it will be more expensive then buying it in a large super market.
As you are doing this as a hobby at the moment I would find a yard you get on with look big pay the prices at first develop a relationship and then see what you can do with the prices.
I deal with hand full of suppliers and they know what we will accept and what will be sent back, and also they also know who else I deal with, I find this keeps them in line most of the time and we buy on average 1-2 cubic metres at a go.
But because we work like this and pay our bills on time, when we need a small amount in a hurry our suppliers will help us out.
If your are going into a yard to collect the timber in small amounts and insist on picking through the stock, the price will be higher as the yard will have to pay someone to help you while you try to get what you want.
If you go to a corner shop and buy a tin of beans it will be more expensive then buying it in a large super market.
As you are doing this as a hobby at the moment I would find a yard you get on with look big pay the prices at first develop a relationship and then see what you can do with the prices.
mikefab
Established Member
If I want nice boards I buy from a local (and rural) joinery and furniture company that also saw and dry their own British timber. Luckily I know them well enough they they will leave me to sort through their stocks to choose what I want and I suppose this doesn't waste their time either. Having said that they are happy to advise on selection for projects too. I wouldn't dream of haggling as I know them to be reasonable people and the price is the price as far as I'm concerned.
I'm about to buy some great big slabs waney edge elm to make a worktop for our kitchen island which will be fun.
Their offcut shed is also good value for smaller purchases.
http://langleyfurnitureworks.co.uk/our-timber/
I'm about to buy some great big slabs waney edge elm to make a worktop for our kitchen island which will be fun.
Their offcut shed is also good value for smaller purchases.
http://langleyfurnitureworks.co.uk/our-timber/
custard
Established Member
It's clear from this thread and other conversations that many hobbyist woodworkers have real problems sourcing decent timber.
I produce an awful lot of large off-cuts of very high quality timber, so I've had a thought.
Here's a straightforward project that's suitable for a beginner/intermediate woodworker. A side table with tapered, splayed legs. It's a contemporary versatile design that you can jazz up with curved aprons and curved ends/sides to the top, beads and mouldings, or if you're feeling up for a challenge you could inlay the top as per the photo (beware though, you'd need to cut cross grain inlay for two of the sides and that's not so simple).
And here's the right quantity of English Walnut, planed to thickness, to make this table. You don't even need to joint the top as it's from an unusually wide board and has a spectacular grain pattern,
Alternatively you might prefer to make this side table from Rippled Sycamore. And here's the thickness planed Rippled Sycamore boards you'd need. Again you don't have to joint the top as these are wide boards, but given that ripple figure is always heaviest out towards the wane, I'd personally rip and joint so the dominant ripple figure runs along the centre of the top,
It's not quite musical instrument grade Ripple, but it's good quality furniture grade that'll really "pop" under a finish, and it's "Arctic" Sycamore, so a nice bright even white colour with no stick marks.
You'd have to know your way around British timber yards pretty well to source timbers like these, and these packages give you the wood you need in the correct thicknesses for a specific project. I'll provide a set of plans and talk you through build details if you want. All you need is a bench, some hand tools (although a router table would simplify the morticing), and 40-80 hours depending on your experience and skill levels.
It's £35 for the Rippled Sycamore, and £45 for the English Walnut. The bad news is it's collection only (although if there's enough interest I might repeat this in the future with a delivery option). I'm on the south coast mid way between Southampton and Bournemouth.
PM me if you're interested.
I produce an awful lot of large off-cuts of very high quality timber, so I've had a thought.
Here's a straightforward project that's suitable for a beginner/intermediate woodworker. A side table with tapered, splayed legs. It's a contemporary versatile design that you can jazz up with curved aprons and curved ends/sides to the top, beads and mouldings, or if you're feeling up for a challenge you could inlay the top as per the photo (beware though, you'd need to cut cross grain inlay for two of the sides and that's not so simple).
And here's the right quantity of English Walnut, planed to thickness, to make this table. You don't even need to joint the top as it's from an unusually wide board and has a spectacular grain pattern,
Alternatively you might prefer to make this side table from Rippled Sycamore. And here's the thickness planed Rippled Sycamore boards you'd need. Again you don't have to joint the top as these are wide boards, but given that ripple figure is always heaviest out towards the wane, I'd personally rip and joint so the dominant ripple figure runs along the centre of the top,
It's not quite musical instrument grade Ripple, but it's good quality furniture grade that'll really "pop" under a finish, and it's "Arctic" Sycamore, so a nice bright even white colour with no stick marks.
You'd have to know your way around British timber yards pretty well to source timbers like these, and these packages give you the wood you need in the correct thicknesses for a specific project. I'll provide a set of plans and talk you through build details if you want. All you need is a bench, some hand tools (although a router table would simplify the morticing), and 40-80 hours depending on your experience and skill levels.
It's £35 for the Rippled Sycamore, and £45 for the English Walnut. The bad news is it's collection only (although if there's enough interest I might repeat this in the future with a delivery option). I'm on the south coast mid way between Southampton and Bournemouth.
PM me if you're interested.
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paulrockliffe
Established Member
WOW, that's awesome!
I should say that I get my wood from Laithes Mill near Penrith, if I tell them what I want and go and pick it up a week or two later ready to go, dimensioned and planned all round. No complaints over the quality of the wood, everything I've had has stayed true and not needing work to square it up before use. I have the kit to dimension and plane from rough boards, but it's time and keeping blades sharp and what I'm charged for that is very low. Works out about £43 a cubic foot for Ash and about £60 for oak for example. I've tried a few places locally and not got anywhere close price/quality wise, but it's a 90 minute drive away (though on the way to my parents') so not ideal.
My experience is pretty much as you're offering and it's a shame more places don't do the same.
Using your table as an example, I could go and pick rough boards, have them pick rough boards, have them plane the boards, have them cut everything to size or even just have them build the table, it's that sort of place. Obviously it costs a lot more if they build the table for you though!
I should say that I get my wood from Laithes Mill near Penrith, if I tell them what I want and go and pick it up a week or two later ready to go, dimensioned and planned all round. No complaints over the quality of the wood, everything I've had has stayed true and not needing work to square it up before use. I have the kit to dimension and plane from rough boards, but it's time and keeping blades sharp and what I'm charged for that is very low. Works out about £43 a cubic foot for Ash and about £60 for oak for example. I've tried a few places locally and not got anywhere close price/quality wise, but it's a 90 minute drive away (though on the way to my parents') so not ideal.
My experience is pretty much as you're offering and it's a shame more places don't do the same.
Using your table as an example, I could go and pick rough boards, have them pick rough boards, have them plane the boards, have them cut everything to size or even just have them build the table, it's that sort of place. Obviously it costs a lot more if they build the table for you though!
Custard, that's an amazingly helpful post and offer!
I have very little clue when trying to visualise how much wood (as sawn boards) a project will take - it seems to be skipped over in pretty much all books, posts, videos etc, so that info is useful in itself.
The price looks very reasonable - I wish I was nearer or ever had any reason at all to drive out your way. (If I ever do, I will definitely make a detour in your direction).
And btw, how did you know that I'm thinking of making a small side table? :roll:
I have very little clue when trying to visualise how much wood (as sawn boards) a project will take - it seems to be skipped over in pretty much all books, posts, videos etc, so that info is useful in itself.
The price looks very reasonable - I wish I was nearer or ever had any reason at all to drive out your way. (If I ever do, I will definitely make a detour in your direction).
And btw, how did you know that I'm thinking of making a small side table? :roll:
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
Does anyone know a mail order supplier of ABW and Oak?
My other needs are sorted its just these more commodity type timbers I'm looking at. I know a good local merchant who I use, but it's a fair old drive so I have to be spending quite a lot to even consider it. Would be nice to have somewhere I could order say, 5cu3 from to top up.
My other needs are sorted its just these more commodity type timbers I'm looking at. I know a good local merchant who I use, but it's a fair old drive so I have to be spending quite a lot to even consider it. Would be nice to have somewhere I could order say, 5cu3 from to top up.
RobinBHM
Established Member
Brooks Bros may deliver a reasonable size order, they have a yard in Skelmersdale, if thats anywhere near you.
Im not sure what their minimum order may be, I would think 5cu ft of ABW would cover that.
They have super prime black walnut (plantation grown, so could be bland)
Im not sure what their minimum order may be, I would think 5cu ft of ABW would cover that.
They have super prime black walnut (plantation grown, so could be bland)
Have you tried either British hardwood in Keighley or lavers? Lavers Bradford is bigger but I think that Leeds has abw. It certainly has oak.
British hardwoods will have both and prices are on the website. Good supplier
British hardwoods will have both and prices are on the website. Good supplier
YorkshireMartin
Established Member
marcros":203dmog9 said:
Never tried Lavers as I spoke to them on the phone once and wasn't particularly impressed. He seemed irritated by the fact I couldn't reel off precisely what I wanted (explained I was completely new to the whole game). That was about a year ago so maybe I'll pop to Leeds.
British Hardwoods have done right by me on several occasions. As a matter of fact, I currently have a beautiful slab of walnut on on my bench, which came from them. They are a very good supplier, but sometimes dont have a huge selection of 2" boards, you sort of have to drop on it I've found.
The yard guys at British Hardwoods are the most helpful people I've met for a while, even brought me a cup of tea and demonstrated the forklift going up and down for my son. Can't ask for more.
