best thing for large sheets of melamine

[Marcjwebb]

hi guys,

so after a large amount of problems with my small table saw, i am currently looking for something a lot better, possibly even with a scoring blade but would like to know others thoughts.

i am making cabinets with melamine and t=need that lovely chip free cut everytime, and wanted to know what you guys thought.

ideally would like to be able to use things like sleds and jigs wiht it too if possible, and as mentioned before looking at the poss of having something with a scoring blade

so, any recommendations here would be a great help.

many thanks

Marc

 

[marcros]

track saw. end of discussion.

 

[Marcjwebb]

see someone else a little while back mentioned that, however i am working with really large sheets (9x6) and need repeatable exact cuts time and time again, and cant see how this can be achieved with this, plus its a lot more money than getting a much more capable table saw with a scoring blade.

have you used a track saw and what do you see as the benafits?

 

[marcros]

I have to confess that I have not used one because i do not do that much with sheet material, and I had bought a table saw before discovering them. Had I not, then I would have had an MFT table and festool saw. I would love the cordless version, but I do not use it enough to justify it.

The big advantage that I have seen on the likes of youtube are:
that the saw moves rather than the material, so less space and handling is required. On a 9x6 board this would save significant lifting
the quality of the cut- appears to be chip and splinter free
you can draw the saw backwards at a cut depth of a mm or so, and it acts as a scoring cut
Cost- the festool is under £350 from axminster. You would need some rails, clamps and jigs but even so, the cost would be less than a saw with scoring blade, which must be £1000+
With the use of jigs, repeatable cuts are achievable.

 

[Beau]

Doubt you will need a scoring saw attachment. I bought a Felder some years back and went for a three phase model and converter as the single phase machine could not have the scoring saw attachment. I don't work much faced material but when I have a good sharp crosscut blade has left an excellent cut and never felt the need to add the scoring saw.

 

[paulm]

If you haven't already, I would try a specialist saw blade designed for the task and possibly a zero clearance insert as well, before thinking of scoring blades as saws with those fitted may be at the expensive end of the scale and possibly not even necessary as Beau mentions above.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Benchwayze]

You will find a Festool tracksaw expensive, yes; and there's more. You need a few additions to the basic kit for repeatable accuracy. This buying of extras can become tiresome, but you still won't shell out as much as you would need to, if you bought a new tablesaw, with a slide, and all the bits and bobs you can buy for those too.

Nor will you get a much cleaner, straighter cut than you can with a Festool tracksaw; you can rub-joint straight from the saw if you wish.

Cheers

 

[dzj]

These are nice to have if you intend to do a lot of work with melamine:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Holz-Her-Pane ... 2a585bfc93

 

[Roughcut]

I certainly wouldn't want to be lugging 9 x 6 sheets around with a table saw arrangement.
I agree with Marcros and reckon a track saw and parallel guide system for accurate breaking down of large sheets.
May I suggest Festool?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7D0yrZY8vU
Once down to manageable sizes an MFT arrangement (whether the Festool MFT/3 or a clone or homemade alternative) will make repetitive cuts both easy and very accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPy8gz ... 5EePeo69If
And especially if you do this for a living I would suggest the financial outlay is worth it all day long.

 

[Marcjwebb]

Info get them pre cut into more manageable sizes. Then finish cut with a good blade. But the old saw didn't seem to be very good at anything to be fair. Plus the cost of the track saw and everything I would need come to far more than a trade size cabinet saw with a scoring blade

 

[Eric The Viking]

Info get them pre cut into more manageable sizes. Then finish cut with a good blade. But the old saw didn't seem to be very good at anything to be fair. Plus the cost of the track saw and everything I would need come to far more than a trade size cabinet saw with a scoring blade

I genuinely don't understand this.

Literally this morning the 3m rail for my Makita arrived: quite a bit less than 150 quid delivered from Axminster.

If you want, a TS55 or battery equiv. will run on Makita rails. The Makita SP6000 saw does scoring cuts too - there's an 'instant' depth setting for it. I think it also takes the same size blades as the TS55, so you could use those if you insist on Festool stuff, and I use the Festool clamps on Makita's rails (because they used to be cheaper than the Makita ones).

So:

SP6000K + 2x1.4m rails (110V): £340 approx.
Makita 3m rail:                £150 approx.
Makita clamps:                  £30 approx.

                     TOTAL:    £520

You don't really need the clamps with the 3m rail tho.

What's not to like?

E.

PS: If you must have green and black tools they can't be that much more expensive, surely? Or you could paint the Makita - it's not illegal.

PPS: The Makita is actually made in the UK (as are some of their sanders), so it's even patriotic.

 

[petermillard]

Info get them pre cut into more manageable sizes. Then finish cut with a good blade. But the old saw didn't seem to be very good at anything to be fair. Plus the cost of the track saw and everything I would need come to far more than a trade size cabinet saw with a scoring blade

I genuinely don't understand this...

Me neither. I think the OP is massively over-estimating the cost of a tracksaw setup, or massively under-estimating the cost of a trade-sized cabinet saw/scoring blade/sliding table/space to use it etc...

FWIW Festool do a 'solid surface and laminate blade' (496 309) which is good on melamine.

HTH Pete

 

[Marcjwebb]

That should have said , I get them cut into ......


The festoon kit with only 1m rail and table is over 1300. Whereas a top of the range used machine might only be 900 ish with a scoring blade ? I just haven't ever seen a track saw in action let alone what it's capable of.

For example. The longest I need to cut would be 6ft and can't see how that table can really cope with that size cut. Let along keep accuracy over the distance

 

[petermillard]

That should have said , I get them cut into ......


The festoon kit with only 1m rail and table is over 1300. Whereas a top of the range used machine might only be 900 ish with a scoring blade ? I just haven't ever seen a track saw in action let alone what it's capable of.

For example. The longest I need to cut would be 6ft and can't see how that table can really cope with that size cut. Let along keep accuracy over the distance

The table (MFT presumably) wouldn't be appropriate for the cuts you need to do, though there's no issue with accuracy - track saws are as accurate as you are. Repeat cuts can be easier with the parallel guides, or a similar home-grown version. Have a look on youtube for examples of what a tracksaw can do.

FWIW TS55 with a 1400 track is about £360. Add £90 for a 1900 rail, £40-ish for the laminate blade. Sheet of 1" Celotex to cut against, job done. Parallel guides, about £120 if you need them. All brand spanking new with a three year warranty.

Top of the range used cabinet saw with a sliding table and scoring blade for ~£900?? Let us know how you get on.

Cheers Pete

 

[Benchwayze]

Marc.

I don't know where you got your quote for a Festool tracksaw from, but mine didn't cost anywhere near £600.00, let alone 1300.

I can cut an 8 foot sheet right down the middle, with complete accuracy, but I don't use the MFT table for a cut that size. Just set up a pair of workmates and a sheet of OSB, as support and that's it. It's a bit of a problem, compared with a big dimension saw, I grant you, but then a dimension saw would cost thousands. That's why I let my local sawmill cut the sheets, on purchase, into managable sizes, I can cope with on the MFT table. (Depending upon what I am making that is!)
:wink:

I could give the machinist a cutting list of course, and let him get on with it, and cut the whole stack of sheet parts. But I like to make my own mistakes, so I need something to break sheets down further. hence the track saw, not having room for a tablesaw.

 

[Eric The Viking]

That should have said , I get them cut into ......


The festoon kit with only 1m rail and table is over 1300. Whereas a top of the range used machine might only be 900 ish with a scoring blade ? I just haven't ever seen a track saw in action let alone what it's capable of.

For example. The longest I need to cut would be 6ft and can't see how that table can really cope with that size cut. Let along keep accuracy over the distance

I don't have an MFT, but the accuracy comes from the rail. I'd say, if you use a 3m rail (a 6ft cut is slightly too long for the standard rail), I'd expect you to get probably better than 0.1mm error over 6ft - it's as good as the extrusion the saw is running on. I assume you know that there is a rubber edging strip on the rail that is trimmed by the saw on the first pass, so it is *exactly* at the edge of the kerf. You mark up the cut, put the rail on the mark, and cut.

Obviously, you can't just dial-in a panel width like you can with a panel saw, but then there's nothing to reduce accuracy like a panel saw, either. It's simple and effective. I doubt anything but the most expensive panel saws would be as accurate over 3m.

As for cost-effectiveness, there are only three significant differences that I can see between the SP6000 (Makita) and the TS55 (Festool).

- The Festool has a riving knife, and optional splinter guards (consumables) to give an ultra clean cut on both sides of the blade. It's arguable that, if you score the surface using a scoring cut you will get an ultra-clean cut anyway (see Pete's blade recommendation).

- The Festool has a larger range of accessories to use with the rails (but as I said either will run on either brand of rails, with slight limitations). That said, the router carriage for the Makita track is less than 40 quid (fits loads of non-Makita routers too), and although Makita don't sell any (I think) you can easily fit sliding stops to their rail as there's a T-track at the back of it.

- The Makita has an anti-tip feature if you're bevel cutting. I've used this and I think it's actually really good.

As far as I can see otherwise they're extremely similar, apart from the huge price difference. I think the Makita build quality is every bit as good as the Festool, but admittedly I've never stripped my Makita down.

 

[Eric The Viking]

FWIW TS55 with a 1400 track is about £360. Add £90 for a 1900 rail, £40-ish for the laminate blade. Sheet of 1" Celotex to cut against, job done.

I must confess: a while back I actually cut up a lot of 6mm ply (8x4 sheets) on the hall carpet, without causing damage. Long story but at the time it seemed a sensible way to do it.

The depth setting is really precise (the Festool is the same) - there's a mechanical advantage of about 2:1 on the scale so 1mm depth is about 2mm on the scale - easy to set very accurately if you need to.

 

[No skills]

Can't wait to find out where I can get a good panel saw for less than a ts55 setup.

In the meantime.. Yes the depth scale on the track saws is great, but don't forget on the ts55 it shows two scales one for on the rail and one for off the rail. Guess which one I looked at when making my first ever cut whilst using the dining table as a saw horse.....

 

[Benchwayze]

The cordless version of the Festool track saw fits a different profile rail; and really was designed for cross-cutting narrower boards.

Accuracy on the MFT table alone, comes from the accuracy with which the dog holes are bored. You put your track against dogs, in the holes and make your cut, knowing it will be square, or at 45 degress; spot-on!

 

[marcros]

that is disappointing to know that the cordless rails are different- I thought that the whole point of the system was that it is all compatible. i would prefer the cordless, simply for the ease of working outside, or in the carpark of the sheet material merchant!