Best practice for installing new doors into old frames

[fleyh]

What is the recommended best practice for installing new doors into old frames when the frames are not plumb or straight, yet not significantly distorted to warrant the process of repositioning or correcting the frame, followed by plasterboard repair and painting?

Is the approach to plane the frame for straightness (eliminating bowing and waviness) while maintaining a non-plumb condition, and then scribing the door to this irregular but straight enough frame?

- If this is the case, how are the door stoppers managed during the frame planing? Should they be removed beforehand?
- How do professionals here address the challenge of planing the frame near corners (top, bottom) where the plane blade's reach is limited?

 

[Bingy man]

I’m not a professional but I would start with how the existing doors fit into their respective frames , treat all as individuals as what may affect 1 frame will probably be different to the rest . A few simple checks will confirm if the frame is square ( measure diagonally) if the frame is twisted you may not see this until the door is within the frame , a level /straight edge down the sides ( where the door sits when closed ) will tell you if the sides are plumb and if not how much your looking at , I’ve used a small block plane to take some of the bow out of a frame . The next job for me is to trim the door to fit the frame and again see how it fits within the frame . It’s all about how it looks and sometimes you will never get it perfect no matter what you try .I aim for the door to be evenly spaced within the frame and for the door to be in contact with the jams/ stops . If the jams are pinned to the frame rather than moulded then these can of course be removed to allow for any twist. The hinge points are often damaged and split etc and may req attention before you even start hanging the door/ s after all if the frame is damaged beyond repair then clearly first job is a new frame/ lining .sometimes the frame is fine but your new door is twisted- this is how I approach new doors into existing frames. Others especially the pro fitters may say different but this method has served me well over the years. Good luck

 

[johnnyb]

unless really bad or not sized correctly for modern doors fit the doors to the frame. planing frames is a good way to create huge amounts of extra work. being out of plumb square true is par for the course and makes little difference one way or the other usually. neat work sharp chisels good techniques will make it a good job. a willingness to take it off one more time when it's needed despite being exhausted.

 

[thetyreman]

in general you don't mess with the frame once it's in place, you fit the door to the frame, I aim for an even gap around the top and sides, then once hinged scribe the bottom from the floor carefully, cutting the hinges and getting that right is the hardest part, the hinge leaf needs to be tight where it can't move especially on a heavy door because a lot of the stress is placed on it, ideally a friction fit with no gaps, cut them with a marking knife not a pencil, I'm not a pro either but I take pride in my work.

 

[Ttrees]

This video is likely worth a watch for some tips.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Don’t mess with the frame, remove the jams carefully as that makes scribing the door a huge amount more straight forward. Use a pair of screwdrivers as an ad-hoc lever/third pair of hands to raise the door into place - other levers are available. Take your time,

 

[fleyh]

This video is likely worth a watch for some tips.

Thank you.
I had viewed numerous YouTube videos before embarking on my first door installation. However, about 99% of these videos depict installations into new frames (similar to the linked video) or new doors into existing, remarkably straight frames.


My issue is that the doors I have to deal with have frame looking like this drawing (it is exaggerated, but not far from my reality)

With the initial door I had to install, I employed a belt sander to rectify the frame's alignment. This process consumed a considerable amount of time, and I encountered significant challenges with the corners. For the subsequent door, I opted for a hand plane. While it was an improvement over the first attempt, I still encountered difficulties with the corners. In both cases, I additionally had to scribe the door to fit within the frame.
Third door was easy - the frame had a trapezoid shape, but it was not (significantly) wavy, so I just fitted the door to the frame.
I have few more doors to install, and I have not gotten to the worst case yet (trying to gain some more experience before getting to a "nightmare" door)

 

[fleyh]

Don’t mess with the frame, remove the jams carefully as that makes scribing the door a huge amount more straight forward. Use a pair of screwdrivers as an ad-hoc lever/third pair of hands to raise the door into place - other levers are available. Take your time,

Could you please clarify what you mean by "jams" here? I've understood "door jamb" to be interchangeable with "door frame."

I'm assuming you're referring to what I might mistakenly call "door stoppers" - those slender planks that prevent the door from swinging too far when closed. If that's the case, then yes, I've already learned (through experience) that it's far simpler to remove those stoppers prior to correcting the frame's alignment, and then repaint, rather than attempting to align the frame with the stoppers in position.

 

[Jacob]

I don't suppose there is a "best practice" as there are too many variables.
In general I'd expect first to offer up the door for fit in the frame, and trim the door as necessary.
If over sized in thickness it is very difficult to trim the rebate - basically you have the wrong sized door. Easiest here is to run a rebate around the edge of the door to reduce it.
Then hang it, whether or not it closes neatly.
As you've already fitted the door to the hole the hinge side and the top should be neat and all the error on the lock side, if you are lucky!
Then look at how to trim/adjust the bits which don't meet up properly, most likely with hand tools and some careful marking up. Paring chisel useful here for getting into corners where a rebate plane won't go, etc.

 

[toolsntat]

If over sized in thickness it is very difficult to trim the rebate - basically you have the wrong sized door. Easiest here is to run a rebate around the edge of the door to reduce it.

Jacob, perhaps you could clarify this as it reads like you're saying put a rebate in the face and edge of the door ?
Hands up, in my early days I did it to some small solid pine doors but that was just a 1/16" and inside the airing cupboard of my own house because the stop was already too small.

Increasing rebate isn't that hard, just run a magnet over the offending area to detect hidden fixings first.

Plant on stops....
I can hear the chorus now
"Oh, happy day"

Cheers, Andy

 

[johnnyb]

one thing I think that takes fitting to the next level is closing up the hinge side gap by adjusting the sinking depth of the hinge in the door. careful because remember binding is a no no.(not too deep) can always pack out with card.(take scissors on every job)

 

[Housey210]

What is the recommended best practice for installing new doors into old frames when the frames are not plumb or straight, yet not significantly distorted to warrant the process of repositioning or correcting the frame, followed by plasterboard repair and painting?

Is the approach to plane the frame for straightness (eliminating bowing and waviness) while maintaining a non-plumb condition, and then scribing the door to this irregular but straight enough frame?

- If this is the case, how are the door stoppers managed during the frame planing? Should they be removed beforehand?
- How do professionals here address the challenge of planing the frame near corners (top, bottom) where the plane blade's reach is limited?

by frame does it have a cill? Is this outside or in?

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, perhaps you could clarify this as it reads like you're saying put a rebate in the face and edge of the door ?
Hands up, in my early days I did it to some small solid pine doors but that was just a 1/16" and inside the airing cupboard of my own house because the stop was already too small.

Perhaps not, but it is one quick way to fit a wrong sized door!

Increasing rebate isn't that hard, just run a magnet over the offending area to detect hidden fixings first.

Depends but it can be quite a task and very much increasing the work needed to hang a door, especially if it's an old frame such as our OP is describing. OK just doing a few adjustments with a rebate plane and a chisel but removing say 10mm all round would be a PITA, even with a router - it's a hand tool job.
PS Stanley 78 - lightweight, good handle, converts to bullnose, or sawn off converts to chisel plane, just the job!

Plant on stops....
I can hear the chorus now
"Oh, happy day"