Basic Woodworking Questions

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I joined this forum about six weeks ago as I want to improve my woodworking skills and knowledge, so I have the confidence to take on more complex projects, and gain experience using existing and new tools. I’ve already picked up great advice and ideas here, as well as from watching YouTube videos.

I sure I’ll ask many questions - some will be fairly basic - so apologies in advance :wink: No one is too old to learn, and I’d rather ask and get it right, than not and do something that I’d regret later. I’m going to try and forget what I think I know and ‘reboot’ my woodworking knowledge, so I'll start with the following.

Plywood – I’m currently rearranging and extending my garage to use as a wood workshop, and I will need to build such things as benches, cupboards, shelves etc. My intention was to use 18mm ply for this, but I'm not sure which type of ply to use, so which type should I use?.

MDF – I want to build some basic cupboards and storage for indoors, and was going to have a go using MDF. Is standard MDF suitable or should I use moisture resistant MDF?

Glue – I’ve always used bog standard PVA of which ever make I can get - Evo, Wickes, Unibond etc - and I’ve never had a problem with it. Is there any type that you’d recommend for general use?

Screws – I’ve never had any issues with using standard c/sunk P/Drive screws. Is there any advantage in paying three times as much for the ‘Turbo’ type that Screwfix and others sell? I have also noticed in some of the YouTube videos, drywall screws are being used. What reason would these be used?

That’s it for now, so TIA and I’d really appreciate any advice on the above.

Obi Wan

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Everbuild D4 is good where there's any likelihood of damp as it's waterproof, but 502 I've found as good (and cheap) as any. Shuttering or softwood ply is Ok, but for a working surface a better ply could be harder and flatter. Turbo type screws are great for construction where pilot holes are not used as they grab better and quicker. Plasterboard screws are cheap but have a habit of breaking off just below the head, so can balls you up if it happens in a hinge or any other fittting as you then can't get the remaining part out. They also need PH2 bits, not PZ2 ones. Many people would say to use better quality screws when fitting dooor furniture and so on, as the risk of a broken screw just isn't worth a quid or two saving - you can't just move a handle a few mil to avoid a broken screw. I don't use much MDF, but if MRMDF were an option I'd take it, having seen what a little damp does to the normal stuff.

 

[skipdiver]

Plywood-CDX or far eastern depending on finish required and budget.

MDF- I would always buy MRMDF as the few pounds extra is worth it.

Glue- As stated, Everbuild is good and fairly cheap in it's variants.

Screws- Spax and Reisser type screws are good but dearer than your bog standard ones. Dry lining screws are best left for dry lining in my opinion. Screwfix gold are a decent all round screw without breaking the bank. I just bought a mixed pack of them for £25 and filled my screw tin. Don't get many of the smaller sizes in the pack but they are cheap enough anyway.

 

[sploo]

Ply varies hugely in price and cost. The hardwood ply you get at Wickes these days is dire; you can get better stuff at builder's merchants, but it's still not that cheap, and will have some voids.

Structural softwood ply is usually a bit cheaper, and is actually perfectly OK for garage shelves. You could use it for cabinets but I'd suggest using it as panels in a pine frame - like what I'm doing here: wip-lathe-workbench-t106888.html

I've used more MDF over the years than I'd care to remember (a lot of loudspeaker builds) and to be honest, it's really not particularly nice stuff. OK, once painted it's acceptable, but I'd almost rather use a melamine faced chipboard - or better yet pine. For anywhere that's not going to get damp you should be fine without using MRMDF. Though again, some of the DIY store stuff is really soft and flaky, and the better quality boards take an edge much better.

Glue - I really like Titebond III. Not the cheapest, but it works well for me. PVA is really OK for most stuff though.

Screws - the better screws often don't need pilot holes in softwood as they have all sorts of sharp sections (to cut their own hole). Some also have "teeth" on the underside of the head to help cut a countersunk hole too. But, you don't need to spend the cash, as with a suitable pilot hole just about any screw will do the job in softwood. There are screws specifically designed for MDF; which I daresay may be better - but I've never had problems with "normal" screws. About the only time I'll get something specific is when I need a stainless steel screw for outdoor use.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Thanks for the advice Phil =D>

I need some more glue so I'll go with the 502.

I'll use the softwood ply for the general construction but will get hardwood for surfaces as you suggest. MRMDF it is then.

I'll stick with the bog standard screws that I've always used. I've always taken care when fitting hinges and door furniture and so far no problems.

Thanks again

Obi Wan

 

[Mark A]

If you have a Toolstation nearby then I'd recommend their TorxFast/ForgeFast screws. They're cheap, drive in easy enough and so far not one has snapped on me despite using thousands in recent years.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Skipdiver - Thanks for your reply and advice. I've been using the S/F Gold too and quite happy with the price and quality.

Sploo - Thanks for your reply and advice. You're not kidding about the variation in price and quality :shock: I was quite surprised when I had a look around. It's early days for me so the softwood ply should suffice. Your build looks really good, but at the moment I do not have a planer or thicknesser, however in time.....

Obi Wan

 

[skipdiver]

If you have a Toolstation nearby then I'd recommend their TorxFast/ForgeFast screws. They're cheap, drive in easy enough and so far not one has snapped on me despite using thousands in recent years.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Yeah, i have started to use these recently and they are good. Bought the multi pack of Goldscrews mentioned earlier for general building work, but i use the torx in my workshop. Get a free torx bit in each box too.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

If you have a Toolstation nearby then I'd recommend their TorxFast/ForgeFast screws. They're cheap, drive in easy enough and so far not one has snapped on me despite using thousands in recent years.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Good shout Mark. I forgot those, even though I've just replace floorboards and used loads of Spax Torx screws!

Obi Wan

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I was in NZ about 11 years ago and my b.i.l. (a teacher, but an experienced ship's joiner) told me it was unusual even that long ago to see anything other than square drive screws used anywhere. Strange they don't seem to have caught on here.

 

[petermillard]

I have also noticed in some of the YouTube videos, drywall screws are being used. What reason would these be used?

Laziness. Or convenience i.e. it's what was to hand. Drywall screws are generally coarse-threaded and as others have said, brittle, so best kept for drywall.

I like Spax, Reisser occasionally, and Spax M-cut for MDF cabinets. Always MR MDF, it's a much better board for not much more money. I like PolyTen PVA, but any D4 PVA is good. Re. ply, I've been finding the quality of even Birch ply to be a bit variable of late; Poplar ply is supposed to be good, but don't have a local supplier to try it out as yet.

FWIW I have MDF bench tops, and they're designed to be a consumable/replaceable part - they get changed every decade or so

I did a 'shop tour' video recently, might be of interest - general link in the sig.

Cheers, Peter

p.s. @ Phil.p - interesting; only ever seen (Robinson?) square-drive screws in Canada...

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Peter, thanks for your response. I'll have a look at your shop tour video shortly.

I'll have a good search around more of the local suppliers and see what ply they can supply and I'll keep in mind what you say about birch and poplar.

Another good point about the bench top - maybe a couple of sheets of 'cheap' ply topped with MDF.

Obi Wan

 

[jnw010]

I have also noticed in some of the YouTube videos, drywall screws are being used. What reason would these be used?

Laziness. Or convenience i.e. it's what was to hand. Drywall screws are generally coarse-threaded and as others have said, brittle, so best kept for drywall.

I think drywall screws are useful when you are gluing the joint anyway - the screws are pulling the joint together and adding a bit of extra strength, but the real strength is in the glued joint. Drywall screws are very cheap and strong enough in that application.
They're also good for knocking up throw away jigs out of scrap - no point in wasting decent screws. I wouldn't hang doors with them, or fit handles etc!

Edit: I'm not talking about using them on fine furniture, but a simple workshop cabinet or crude drawer assembly.

 

[skipdiver]

Funnily enough, i had to take down a plasterboard today from a ceiling because we decided to move one of the spotlights and had to access the wires before the plasterer came to skim the ceiling. I reckon about half of the dry lining screws snapped taking them out.

I also remembered why i like spax screws. You can put them onto your screwdriver bit and present them to the wood, press the trigger and they just bite and start to drive in, which is invaluable fitting a kitchen when you only have one hand free. The Goldscrews were taking forever to bite and i had to apply a lot of pressure to get them going, which is precarious because they are then prone to suddenly go at an angle or slip completely. Dearer screws pay for themselves in saved time.

 

[petermillard]

Dearer screws pay for themselves in saved time.

Yep - my time's more valuable than any box of screws - plus decent screws also much nicer to work with. [THUMBS UP SIGN]

 

[paulrockliffe]

Drywall screws are often used in MDF where the coarser thread means they're less likely to just mush the MDF completely and not grip at all. In my experience they are pretty good for MDF, so long as you don't over tighten them. If it's MDF and something that needs to be properly strong then I tend to cut a thread and bolt MDF together, it takes a tap brilliantly.

 

[petermillard]

Drywall screws are often used in MDF ...

By whom? Not by anybody who works extensively with MDF, we tend to use MDF screws - Spax M-cut are very good, though regular Spax also do well.

There's all kinds of screws for all kinds of uses. Nothing wrong with drywall screws - for drywall (preferably collated).

P

 

[sunnybob]

18 mm ply is overkill for wall cupboards unless you are storing seriously heavy tools.
12 mm would do almost all cupboards, maybe 18 mm for a bottom shelf if the load is going to be heavy and the shelf long.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

18 mm ply is overkill for wall cupboards unless you are storing seriously heavy tools.
12 mm would do almost all cupboards, maybe 18 mm for a bottom shelf if the load is going to be heavy and the shelf long.

Thanks for the advice Sunnybob. Using 12mm will save me some money too

Obi Wan

 

[sunnybob]

I have a 12 mm shelf in the workshop about 3 ft long. It holds 2 x makita edge trimmers, a large mains powered hammer drill, a bosch electric planer, and all the attachments for them, no sign of sag or strain.

if you were going to store a few thousand large screws nuts and bolts, maybe 18 mm.