Bandsaw blade guide upgrade - generic?

[mikebeetle]

Hi all

I have a Charnwood W730 bandsaw and since i have had it i have not been able to set the guides up satisfactorily. The whole setup of roller bearings etc is very weak and keeps needing to be re-adjusted almost every time i use the saw.

I would like to explore the possibility of making a blade guide from either ceramic, Lignum or Tufnol and was wondering if anyone has done this on a similar saw before?

Or is there a system available to be purchased that i could adapt to this saw?

TIA

Mike

 

[Richard_C]

My Bandsaw has ceramic guides and if I remember correctly Axminster sell an upgrade kit to roller guides. Sounds like you might be going the other way and I wonder if that will help you much. Depends on what you are doing, but if you get the tracking and tension right the guides barely do any 'work' at all. Having the right blade for the job is essential, particularly the tpi, too fine in thick stock and it goes all over the place.

On the readjustment point, check that the column goes up and down nice and straight, mine wanders a bit so I have to peer at the guide to blade gap and tweak the column as I tighten the lock screw. Not ideal but I can live with it, one of the shortcomings of a DIY rather than trade machine perhaps.

 

[pgrbff]

If the position of the blade on the top wheel and the tension are always the same for a given blade you should not have to re-adjust every time. It took me ages but eventually, I even managed to get the guides on my Lidl/Scheppach to work OK'ish.

 

[loftyhermes]

I've had my 730 for 6years (bought second hand) and never had any problems with the guides. The only time I've had to adjust them is when I change the blade or bearings, once they are set, they stay set.

 

[Sideways]

If your bandsaw is properly tensioned and tracked, it should cut even if had no guides.
Make sure you are using a sensible blade for the task, not too fine or too narrow, not kinked or blunt..
Make sure it is tight enough
Make sure the blade is tracking in the correct position on both wheels.

Do all this with the blade guides wound back completely then bring each of them to a cigarette paper thickness off the blade and lock off.

Don't force the saw. Let it cut at a gentle pace. Forcing the timber too fast or around too tight a curve for the blade is when the blade guides have to work to prevent you from misusing it.

On the grounds that the blade guides shouldn't be doing anything most of the time, fitting anyting exotic to a hobby bandsaw is maybe not best value.

 

[pgrbff]

If your bandsaw is properly tensioned and tracked, it should cut even if had no guides.
Make sure you are using a sensible blade for the task, not too fine or too narrow, not kinked or blunt..
Make sure it is tight enough
Make sure the blade is tracking in the correct position on both wheels.

Do all this with the blade guides wound back completely then bring each of them to a cigarette paper thickness off the blade and lock off.

Don't force the saw. Let it cut at a gentle pace. Forcing the timber too fast or around too tight a curve for the blade is when the blade guides have to work to prevent you from misusing it.

On the grounds that the blade guides shouldn't be doing anything most of the time, fitting anyting exotic to a hobby bandsaw is maybe not best value.

Thats not a straightforward statement, in green, and will vary from user to user, machine to machine.

 

[Ttrees]

Thats not a straightforward statement, in green, and will vary from user to user, machine to machine.

Not sure why you'd find argument there, but matching crowns for me please!

 

[pgrbff]

Not sure why you'd find argument there, but matching crowns for me please!

I'm not arguing, just pointing out that different people will advocate putting the blade in different places.
On top of that depending on the machine and the width of the blade you might be limited in where you can position the blade. I have a small saw, a Hammer 35, but often use a wide blade, a width Hammer says it is ok to use, but the guides limit where I can place the blade on the tyre.
Not everyone has a "perfect" bandsaw" and I don't believe there can be a universal "correct position on both wheels" in practice.

 

[Ttrees]

The lower wheel should to be co-planar for belt alignment, though to check that
one needs to have faced wheels.
I've mentioned the tolerance needed before for my 24" saw to check that, but haven't a clue what that is for a smaller machine, the scribing beam would tell all.
It would also show the shortcomings of near any machine, but specific CO saws and little else.

I have no time for bad design though, nor making excuses for any big names or companies,
having found no concrete answers anywhere in regards to my machine, or the new one I had before it, but plenty of pretenders, and chancers.
So yes I agree, not everyone has a perfect bandsaw, what's the chances, might as well do the lotto, but no reason why they shouldn't, and it ain't fair that someone gets a lemon,
for the sake of a fiver's worth of extra steel.

My findings have set the record straight on that, and is there to shame everyone,
and I've got a folder of very strange looking machines from most companies,
just for those who claim to seemingly have a magic touch to explain,
and some of those issues I've suggested, I haven't got an answer for otherwise.

So you'll have to forgive my rant, but all the vagueness and excuses for having anything but
a perfect machine, shouldn't be going on atall really!.
The modern blueprint, perhaps planned as such so you'll be buying another machine, as somethings gotta give, if the wheels aren't aligned?
How about some reading from Van Huskey, from the creek,
What was the old man at Centauro not happy about...a change to flange mount?
The different story depending on who or where you ask in Italy, and total lack of clarity...

Obviously something from further afield than Van's outings,
all those things can make for even better excuses and easier for the run around.

I see brand new saws with problems all the time, and the "clueless amateur"
(who likely has done their homework on all the blade tracking tutorials what's out there)
gets the run around from the retailers.

No one knows anything yet about this, as far as I understand,
and alignment of wheels is surely an interesting subject for blade longevity,
not to mention premature wear, etc.
Take the flutter method for example, a genuine technique or just evidence of a wonky saw.
How much tension required, and the list goes on.

You'd think this would be all known, as the modern welded steel saw like the Italian's or
the knockoffs of such, has been made since the early 1980's.
Time for a revision I think.

Rant over, from someone who's spent far far too long to get to the bottom of things.

Tom

 

[Sideways]

Thats not a straightforward statement, in green, and will vary from user to user, machine to machine.

It is a straightforward statement but requires the user to do some work not be spoon fed.
Bandsaws vary. Some have flat tyres, some crowned and the tracking differs between these two. Most saws have crowned tyres these days but classically, the old Kity bandsaws from 80's and 90's had flat tyres and their manuals explain how to track those.
Tracking a bandsaw has been done to death on the internet. Look up a few. Alex Snodgrass on youtube isn't a bad place to start and like anything else on youtube you need to learn to ignore the many voices who are all ego and little experience.
Read the user manual for the saw too but be aware that manuals for cheap chinese import machines can be poor.
Reference sources here on UKW include threads by @Ttrees who posted above, @deema who has dug deep into blade guides and my own thread on overhauling an SCM S45 bandsaw which has a lot of bandsaw detail in it.

Good setup doesn't have much user preference.
You have a machine and a task to complete. The choice of blade, setup etc flows logically from that.

Have fun. It isn't hard but you need to put some effort in to learn any tool or machine.

 

[Ttrees]

Bandsaws vary. Some have flat tyres, some crowned and the tracking differs between these two. Most saws have crowned tyres these days but classically, the old Kity bandsaws from 80's and 90's had flat tyres and their manuals explain how to track those.

What we're seeing there is anticlastic curvature,
a trick of the eye, as the blade needs feel that crown, whether one can see it or not.
Cooks sawmill snippet to explain...


I spent ages with that notion of flat tires being the spec, and documented dressing my tires with a flat profile in detail, and also documented the difference in performance flat vs crowned,
a real test with a damaged (set compressed) blade, what wasn't possible to get through the cut,
without having the crown.

Have fun. It isn't hard but you need to put some effort in to learn any tool or machine.

Aye, indeed.
And if it doesn't play nice, should you have tried the max length belt,
and you ain't got a CO with foot mount motor,
it isn't the end of the world.
The Italian machines being very accommodating, you'd near think designed for the job,
compared to the faffery one might need to do on some cheaper options.
I suggest better to start with something with all the important and nicer bits,
i.e hefty components, real good castings, and nicer guides.

Many might say that's over the top, but they've not seen my folder of shame, with the odd solutions for when the motor doesn't align with the upper wheel.
Pity I never took a video of un-crating of my previous machine, as it came with the jacking screws
practically hanging on by a damaged thread, all loosened out to the max.

Very serious business!

 

[mikebeetle]

Thanks all for your responses. I am just going to remake the bracket that holds the upper guide assembly. It is held on one side and keeps sagging. Hopefully once done it shouldn't cause any more issues.

 

[Max Power]

I'm not arguing, just pointing out that different people will advocate putting the blade in different places.
On top of that depending on the machine and the width of the blade you might be limited in where you can position the blade. I have a small saw, a Hammer 35, but often use a wide blade, a width Hammer says it is ok to use, but the guides limit where I can place the blade on the tyre.
Not everyone has a "perfect" bandsaw" and I don't believe there can be a universal "correct position on both wheels" in practice.

What do you class as a wide blade?