Axminster Rider No 7... concave sole, customer service pants as usual

[G S Haydon]

DW should post a link to his vid on dealing with long metal planes.

The Rider planes are a disappointment. If you are on a budget the Chinese planes are a better bet.

 

[Jameshow]

I bet the rider planes are a cousin to the faithfull planes from the same sobo assembly line.

Cheers James

 

[D_W]

DW should post a link to his vid on dealing with long metal planes.

The Rider planes are a disappointment. If you are on a budget the Chinese planes are a better bet.

I'm sure the information in it was accurate (it's just the same thing as my post earlier), but as I recall, it was rambling, cranky and not that easy to follow. I probably made it after a post from someone asserting here in the states that the only way to get an accurate plane sole was to surface grind (which is fine if you can do it for free, but one could learn to do both flattening and squaring to tolerance in the amount of time it would take to get a plane back. .

 

[Andy Kev.]

Half thinking it would be cheaper just to buy a better quality jointer plane and hope that it's flatter!

As you've confirmed with your straight edge testing that it is out, then that is the quick way to reliability and to getting back to the task in hand. It's a matter of biting the bullet and looking at Veritas, Clifton or L-N. I can recommend the Veritas BU No 7 but I would bet that the equivalent offerings from the other two are at least as good. In the unlikely event that the plane would be out, it would be a good idea to buy from someone who will either check the plane in advance (a phone call before buying would probably sort that out) or will accept and replace returns. The dealers who specialise in hand tools are probably the best ones to buy from.

 

[SMALMALEKI]

Hi everyone

I've got a No 7 from Axminster, and I've been using over the last 18 months to flatten large slabs and boards, but I haven't needed it to joint anything. I've been working on some toy boxes for my kids over the last few weeks and I've had to make some panels up and I've noticed that I just cannot get the blooming thing to joint anything properly. There's a noticeable hump in the middle of any boards I try to joint, and that means that over an 80cm board, I've got a 1.5mm gap at one end when I close up the other.

I've had a look at the sole against the straight edges I've got (none of them are certified straight, but they all agree) that the sole is concave. I expect this a little bit, but I don't know how far away from flat is acceptable... Anyway, Axminster aren't interested in helping me, because it's out of their 1 year warranty (despite me pointing out that the sole won't have changed shape in that time, so it must have been like this when I bought it, and they are bound by the consumer rights act to provide a product that can do what it's designed to do). Their customer service really is pants these days. I've spend thousands with them over the last couple of years, but they're losing my loyalty these days.

Anyway, my question really is how on earth can I flatten something this size, without it completely killing the bank balance? I know I can buy lapping plates are so on that would work with smaller planes, but given that the no 7 is so big, is there something that you can recommend?

Many thanks...

I am sorry to see your problem with Rider No 7. I had the same plane from them with some issues. What I did was to get a piece of granite kitchen countertop and stick sand paper to it. It worked for me. I have a flat surface granite but it was too small for this plane.
you can get it from stone merchant near you.

 

[Benchwayze]

I have flattened plane soles using a piece of 25mm MDF on a flat bench. However I tend to agree a better quality plane is probably the answer.

John

 

[Benchwayze]

I have flattened plane soles using a piece of 25mm MDF on a flat bench. However I tend to agree a better quality plane is probably the answer.

John

I have two Quanshengs that are reliable and Rob Cosman speaks for Wood River planes. Might be worth consideration.

John

 

[PaulArthur]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts - I’ll have a good hard look at my technique first, as that’s the easiest thing to diagnose perhaps!

As it happens. I have a big chunk of 30mm mdf hanging around as an off cut. That on a flat bench might be flat enough for dry lapping, I suppose.

 

[NewbieRaf]

Total newbie to Planes here and have been researching them. I know this won’t help this issue but I’ve just started looking at “vintage Stanley bailey” number 7 plane as I joint boards regularly. I must say it’s a total rabbit hole which one to go for, date, iron type, blue/black, quality of the used plane, rust, cracks argg all not easy to see from eBay which is causing me to think to buy new. But because this will be my first plane I’m not sure if I should spend the cash on a Nielsen or something of top quality. I would appreciate any advice especially around what I should buy for a reasonable price or even if you think I should go top dollar

 

[Jameshow]

I'll be checking my no6 faithfull plane when it appears at Christmas.

Not that my skills are anything to go by.

Cheers James

 

[Andy Kev.]

Total newbie to Planes here and have been researching them. I know this won’t help this issue but I’ve just started looking at “vintage Stanley bailey” number 7 plane as I joint boards regularly. I must say it’s a total rabbit hole which one to go for, date, iron type, blue/black, quality of the used plane, rust, cracks argg all not easy to see from eBay which is causing me to think to buy new. But because this will be my first plane I’m not sure if I should spend the cash on a Nielsen or something of top quality. I would appreciate any advice especially around what I should buy for a reasonable price or even if you think I should go top dollar

A quick check of the Classic Hand Tools website shows the following prices in GBP:

Veritas No 7 BU 299 - 309 (depending on choice of blade material)
Clifton No 7 345
Lie-Neilsen No 7 430
Lie-Neilsen No 8 480

The choice seems to boil down to whether or not you want bevel up or bevel down. I've got the Veritas No 7 BU and all I can say is that it joints perfectly. (Mind you, I'd love to have the Clifton but I simply don't need it.) Have a look at the various reviews and see what you think.

 

[Lons]

Hi
I've always found Axminster very good but if it was me so upset about my purchase I wouldn't leave it at being fobbed off by customer services and before trying to flatten the plane myself, after which it would be too late I would write a carefully worded letter politely outlining the issues and the response you received then email it to the MD. I would also highlight your loyalty and expenditure which is easy for them to check and not a bad thing to say you're a member of forums and will be discussing the matter there, be careful not to make that an obvious threat.
Tell him you're losing faith which is a shame and you hope he is able to offer help before you have to buy elsewhere.
I'm not trying to tell you how to word a letter as I'm sure you know but we don't know how many other potential customers are lurking in the background taking note.

I don't want to post the guy's email address on the forum but the MD when I last checked was Ian Styles and you can get his email from this the following link if you search for the company. https://ceoemail.com/

cheers
Bob

 

[johnny]

why not take it to an Engineering shop and get them to precision skim it like they do with cylinder heads ?

 

[Jameshow]

https://paulsellers.com/2013/12/questions-answered-considering-longer-planes/
Paul sellars says he has trouble with longer planes not being flat....

Another good blog post....

https://www.wallybois.com/stanley-bailey-n0-7-plane/
Cheers James

 

[PaulArthur]

Hi
I've always found Axminster very good but if it was me so upset about my purchase I wouldn't leave it at being fobbed off by customer services and before trying to flatten the plane myself, after which it would be too late I would write a carefully worded letter politely outlining the issues and the response you received then email it to the MD. I would also highlight your loyalty and expenditure which is easy for them to check and not a bad thing to say you're a member of forums and will be discussing the matter there, be careful not to make that an obvious threat.
Tell him you're losing faith which is a shame and you hope he is able to offer help before you have to buy elsewhere.
I'm not trying to tell you how to word a letter as I'm sure you know but we don't know how many other potential customers are lurking in the background taking note.

I don't want to post the guy's email address on the forum but the MD when I last checked was Ian Styles and you can get his email from this the following link if you search for the company. https://ceoemail.com/

cheers
Bob

Thanks Bob - I’ve already started this actually. Interestingly, I needed to buy a couple of new Mortice chisels, and I bought elsewhere. Along with a couple of new router bits. That’s after spending £2,000 elsewhere last month on a table saw elsewhere. Shows what happens if you don’t look after customers.

 

[Ttrees]

Will we get to know if the plane is within tolerance?
This might be interesting for some folk who might be thinking of getting a Soba plane.
Seems a knock for both companies with seemingly no sort of evidence to back anything up.
Did you do some more testing since then?

Nose diving will happen with a long plane, or any plane for that matter, much reduced if the cap iron is set close, and when not set so closely, stopped shavings are employed to achieve a straight edge, Charlesworth's videos are the go to for anyone who really want's sound advice on precision stuff in video format,
he is honest which is something that is missing from a lot of other folks.

Tom

 

[MusicMan]

I can't see any reason to use a #7 with a shooting board, unless building muscles is the aim?
What #4's are meant for.

There's two ways of using a long-grain shooting board. One is like the usual cross grain and this is what I was suggesting to the OP, where the edge of the shooting board defines the straightness. Then the length of the plane does not matter. The other is to use the length of the plane to get the straightness (I think this is what Custard does). In this case the plane does not run along the edge of the board. This method is useful for thinner boards, where it is difficult to plane them vertically-held as the plane tends to wobble.

Having the plane running on its side makes it a bit easier to use good planing technique with even pressure, for me, but YMMV.

And yes, one uses the lateral lever to make the plane blade perpendicular to the board.

 

[Ollie78]

You could do it on an oscillating edge sander, you might need the blue belts for better results on metal though.

Ollie

 

[pe2dave]

Total newbie to Planes here and have been researching them. I know this won’t help this issue but I’ve just started looking at “vintage Stanley bailey” number 7 plane as I joint boards regularly. I must say it’s a total rabbit hole which one to go for, date, iron type, blue/black, quality of the used plane, rust, cracks argg all not easy to see from eBay which is causing me to think to buy new. But because this will be my first plane I’m not sure if I should spend the cash on a Nielsen or something of top quality. I would appreciate any advice especially around what I should buy for a reasonable price or even if you think I should go top dollar

Pay *lots* for a name who check their product, or buy from ebay and set it straight.
If you've the time and patience, you will wind up with a good plane.
You can set the bed / sides right.
Worst comes to the worst, a new iron is rarely that expensive.

I take great pleasure in using a sharp, smart plane that was rusty and neglected when I received it.
It's *my* tool. I know it well and can fettle it in future if needed.

 

[rafezetter]

Hi everyone

I've got a No 7 from Axminster, and I've been using over the last 18 months to flatten large slabs and boards, but I haven't needed it to joint anything. I've been working on some toy boxes for my kids over the last few weeks and I've had to make some panels up and I've noticed that I just cannot get the blooming thing to joint anything properly. There's a noticeable hump in the middle of any boards I try to joint, and that means that over an 80cm board, I've got a 1.5mm gap at one end when I close up the other.

I've had a look at the sole against the straight edges I've got (none of them are certified straight, but they all agree) that the sole is concave. I expect this a little bit, but I don't know how far away from flat is acceptable... Anyway, Axminster aren't interested in helping me, because it's out of their 1 year warranty (despite me pointing out that the sole won't have changed shape in that time, so it must have been like this when I bought it, and they are bound by the consumer rights act to provide a product that can do what it's designed to do). Their customer service really is pants these days. I've spend thousands with them over the last couple of years, but they're losing my loyalty these days.

Anyway, my question really is how on earth can I flatten something this size, without it completely killing the bank balance? I know I can buy lapping plates are so on that would work with smaller planes, but given that the no 7 is so big, is there something that you can recommend?

Many thanks...

I had a similar problem with a plane and ended up lapping - I bought a 3ft long section of 10mm float glass (NOT TEMPERED!) and used clips to attach a long section of 60 grit fabric backed zircon paper (blue stuff designed for metal) and then flattened a section of reclaimed slate hearth that I had to use as a support backer - siliconed the two together and added a way to attach the paper without clips.

I've now got a long flat lapping station I can use for ensuring my plane soles are flat, which is especially useful for my wooden ones.

Some people use a granite surface plate or tile with wet n dry, which I tried in the past but I never really managed to get the paper edge sections to lie flat, and almost always ended up tearing them - my version with fabric backed abrasive is under tension to stay flat, won't tear even when saturated with water and can be swapped out for another grit easily once the main cutting has been done.

Edit - DO NOT BUY TEMPERED FLOAT GLASS - I know the safety issue is a thing BUT tempered glass is not flat - it might LOOK flat, but my experience has shown it's not always FLAT - FLAT (I used a tempered glass section before buying the float glass and could nto understand why the sole wa not flattening, until I checked the glass with an axminster straightedge - there was light under it - the glass I thought was "flat" - because it's glass right and how it's made, had deformed in the tempering process. - Far as I know all glass sold for "scary sharpening" kits is NON TEMPERED float glass.