Axminster at Rycotewood

[Ironballs]

Nick it sounds like we could take a bench but not a UKW bench. Agree with your points, we'd just need to agree what the purpose of the bench was like Tom was saying

 

[woodbloke]

Tom - I think you are making some interesting and valid points. If this is a commercial venture, which for Axminster it surely is, then why would a group of individuals like us turn up and do demonstrations for free. I am sure that the 'celebrity' demonstrators get paid, because ultimately they are assisting in shifting product.

I have wondered what the motivation is for all the groups (most often woodturning) that demo at events like Westonbirt? I can only see that it is (a) to increase membership and (b) for personal gratification i.e. because they enjoy it. If you can't tick either of those boxes then why do it?

My 2 cents is that if people want to do it then why ever not, but it wouldn't be for me.

Ed

I think one can get a bit holier than though about the motivations for anything (not saying that Ed is). There are usually a whole mix of reasons why I'll demonstrate at an event.

a) It may bring me coverage and new readers which will fund what I do, and help me take what I hope if good to other woodworkers. Companies like mine have to believe we offer a better service than others, but do lubricate that service we have to make a buck.
b) I support the endeavours of those involved (eg Mike at Classic Hand Tools, and Ian at Axminster; both of whom I've grown to trust for the way they do business over many years). I particularly respect those who make the effort one way or another to spread the word.
c) Because it's fun. I've had some great times at the Festival of the Tree, and more recently at Cressing Temple. Met some great people, drunk some great beer.
d) Because it's our responsibility to get out there and promote woodworking. By the good fortune of being in the right place at the right time, I've got a lot out of woodworking, and I'm very happy to put something back (sorry if that sounds cringy).

I fear that because the Forum is so essentially democratic and free from commerce that people a suspicious of those of us who follow a different model. Of course there are folk out there who only want to make money, but I think you'd be surprised how many are also motivated by more altruistic aims.

Ian Styles may want to embrace the Forum. Who can blame him. I do too. But it would be a myopic Forum to consider it one-way traffic. I'm happy to promote what the Forum does because it serves a valuable service, but we're in a world of collaboration not confrontation these days. No one can afford to stand still. I'd take a bench if I was you, have a laugh, and enjoy it as a good day out.

Nick

Nick - thank God for that point of view so very well expressed...I thought I was on my own. Thanks again... but someone else will have to do the orgainising if it's to happen (which I very much doubt) as I, quite frankly, have had enough
- Rob

 

[wizer]

Rob, I think, instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face, you should take an alternative route. Why not suggest to Ian that you set something up that promotes yourself at this event. Like Nick, you obviously want to do this for 'kicks and giggles'. So praps throwing out baby with the bath water isn't the best plan. I for one would really like to see your demonstrations. Doing it under your own banner as a guest of Axminster would be the better way to do this. You are much respected around here and clearly Ian at Axminster identifies this. I'd urge you to sleep on this and think about running your own sessions at this event where we can all enjoy your enthusiasm and passion.

My negativity was based around the link between UKW and Axminster and nothing at all to do with not wanting demonstrations from respected members.

Think about it, please.

 

[Ironballs]

I agree, if we can't have a UKW bench (come on mods n' Charley) then we could have a bench. It will surely benefit all to make closer links with companies like Axminster and I'd hate for them to think we'd snubbed them.

Plus, with their Brimarc connection they may be able to bring some pressure to bear with Lee Valley, so you never know Rob, you may get that Veritas compass plane yet :wink:

 

[Noel]

Guys, the absence of dialogue was the issue. As I said before if anybody (including you Rob) wants to propose something then myself and the other mods will listen and respond. Simple.

 

[Ironballs]

Fair enough, why don't we get a suggestions/requests thread going then, see what's feasible and see what's in the land of make believe

 

[big soft moose]

Guys, the absence of dialogue was the issue. As I said before if anybody (including you Rob) wants to propose something then myself and the other mods will listen and respond. Simple.

thats fairy nuff noel - after all if we were on the screwfix boards we wouldnt be setting up a screwfix branded stand without consulting with the brand owner - likewise if axminster had a forum i'm sure ian wouldnt welcome all and sundry setting up "axminster" branded stands, and merchandise without consulting first.

on the other hand in those circumstances that brand owner is contactable and everyone knows where they stand , on the other hand trying to contact charley is nigh on impossible as even some mods have said on other threads - now I (and doubtless rob and tom) realise that charlie has handed these issues over to the mod team to deal with but this may not be apparent to everyone (as it wasnt to me until fairly recently) - perhaps we need an anouncement to this effect - or a point in the read this first sticky.

edit : and very quick action from noel there , tis now a point in the read this first

 

[big soft moose]

Tom - I think you are making some interesting and valid points. If this is a commercial venture, which for Axminster it surely is, then why would a group of individuals like us turn up and do demonstrations for free. I am sure that the 'celebrity' demonstrators get paid, because ultimately they are assisting in shifting product.

I have wondered what the motivation is for all the groups (most often woodturning) that demo at events like Westonbirt? I can only see that it is (a) to increase membership and (b) for personal gratification i.e. because they enjoy it. If you can't tick either of those boxes then why do it?

My 2 cents is that if people want to do it then why ever not, but it wouldn't be for me.

Ed

I think one can get a bit holier than though about the motivations for anything (not saying that Ed is). There are usually a whole mix of reasons why I'll demonstrate at an event.

a) It may bring me coverage and new readers which will fund what I do, and help me take what I hope if good to other woodworkers. Companies like mine have to believe we offer a better service than others, but do lubricate that service we have to make a buck.
b) I support the endeavours of those involved (eg Mike at Classic Hand Tools, and Ian at Axminster; both of whom I've grown to trust for the way they do business over many years). I particularly respect those who make the effort one way or another to spread the word.
c) Because it's fun. I've had some great times at the Festival of the Tree, and more recently at Cressing Temple. Met some great people, drunk some great beer.
d) Because it's our responsibility to get out there and promote woodworking. By the good fortune of being in the right place at the right time, I've got a lot out of woodworking, and I'm very happy to put something back (sorry if that sounds cringy).

I fear that because the Forum is so essentially democratic and free from commerce that people a suspicious of those of us who follow a different model. Of course there are folk out there who only want to make money, but I think you'd be surprised how many are also motivated by more altruistic aims.

Ian Styles may want to embrace the Forum. Who can blame him. I do too. But it would be a myopic Forum to consider it one-way traffic. I'm happy to promote what the Forum does because it serves a valuable service, but we're in a world of collaboration not confrontation these days. No one can afford to stand still. I'd take a bench if I was you, have a laugh, and enjoy it as a good day out.

Nick

There maybe problems with taking an unbranded stand, notably that the demonstrators (and the customers at the show) would not know its purpose or why it was there.

Just an idea nick but given that it seems the idea of a ukw stand has now been kicked into touch would you consider taking the stand space as a british woodworking/whatever branded stand and having some folk from here demonstrate on it

Ive no idea whether ian would welcome that and as i said its just a random musing so feel free to tell me to play on the motorway.

 

[big soft moose]

Fair enough, why don't we get a suggestions/requests thread going then, see what's feasible and see what's in the land of make believe

one word of caution there - in my experience on the other forum i'm involved in such threads very quickly fly off into telly tubby land - for example( and sadly i'm not making this up) "we could have a branded yurt which would be great for shows" and serious people stop reading them.

I'd tend to suggest that if we have a suggestion we approach noel or philly or whoever with it by pm, before mentioning it on the boards.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Just an idea nick but given that it seems the idea of a ukw stand has now been kicked into touch would you consider taking the stand space as a british woodworking/whatever branded stand and having some folk from here demonstrate on it

Ive no idea whether ian would welcome that and as i said its just a random musing so feel free to tell me to play on the motorway.

We're having a stand there, to launch our initiative to get schools making block planes and, obviously, to sell subs. I think sharing might complicate matters. If Ian is serious about offering you some space, I would take a bench (Axminster may even supply you with one) and have a little sign and perhaps a handout promoting the Forum as a superb resource for woodworkers to share information and advice etc... I'd see it as a good opportunity to promote UKW just by handing out flyers to visitors. You could have a laptop to show what you do. It links to a couple of the themes (education and 'talking/communication) of the event.

Nick

Nick

 

[big soft moose]

Just an idea nick but given that it seems the idea of a ukw stand has now been kicked into touch would you consider taking the stand space as a british woodworking/whatever branded stand and having some folk from here demonstrate on it

Ive no idea whether ian would welcome that and as i said its just a random musing so feel free to tell me to play on the motorway.

We're having a stand there, to launch our initiative to get schools making block planes and, obviously, to sell subs. I think sharing might complicate matters. If Ian is serious about offering you some space, I would take a bench (Axminster may even supply you with one) and have a little sign and perhaps a handout promoting the Forum as a superb resource for woodworkers to share information and advice etc... I'd see it as a good opportunity to promote UKW just by handing out flyers to visitors. You could have a laptop to show what you do. It links to a couple of the themes (education and 'talking/communication) of the event.

Nick

Nick

fair points nick as i said it was just a thought.

your suggestion does assume that the powers that be want the forum promoted - that could lead to a sudden influx of new members which might strain mod resources.

As i said it seems from the posts above that the idea of a ukw stand has been kicked into touch - so if someone takes a stand and a bunch of us demonstrate (personally i'm probably not suited unless they want a demonstration of how to @rse up a dovetail) then it will just be a bunch of likely lads who happen to post here not "UKW" per se

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I don't think you even have to demonstrate. If Axminster want you there as a presence to promote education and the sharing of information, then you only need a small stand and a laptop with a dongle to show what the Forum is about and the benefits it can offer woodworkers. Do some real-time questions or something.

Nick

 

[lurker]

To some extent this "discussion" represents a fear I have about UKworkshop. We truly rely on Charley's good will and obviously as a young bloke his priorities are bound to shift.

When the site went dead the other week, I was dreading the idea it was gone for good.

My guess is there a group of folks ( mods??) beavering away in the background. But what if they have a falling out ( I've seen similar in other voluntary organisations).

It just needs someone to get in a huff much like Rob has done here, and the house of cards collapses.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

To some extent this "discussion" represents a fear I have about UKworkshop. We truly rely on Charley's good will and obviously as a young bloke his priorities are bound to shift.

When the site went dead the other week, I was dreading the idea it was gone for good.

My guess is there a group of folks ( mods??) beavering away in the background. But what if they have a falling out ( I've seen similar in other voluntary organisations).

It just needs someone to get in a huff much like Rob has done here, and the pack of cards collapses.

It is a real dilemma. The Forum's independence is its greatest strength (that and the enthusiasm of the members). Forums that are run by media organisations rarely work as well because there is a conflict between the commercial necessities of survival in business and the enthusiasm and dedication that's needed to run/moderate a forum.

Nick

 

[wizer]

Praps we need a 'sister' website that can be run and maintained better. But the forum would stay here.

I could set that up. A woodworking education and resource site....?

 

[big soft moose]

To some extent this "discussion" represents a fear I have about UKworkshop. We truly rely on Charley's good will and obviously as a young bloke his priorities are bound to shift.

When the site went dead the other week, I was dreading the idea it was gone for good.

My guess is there a group of folks ( mods??) beavering away in the background. But what if they have a falling out ( I've seen similar in other voluntary organisations).

It just needs someone to get in a huff much like Rob has done here, and the house of cards collapses.

its a concern but i doubt it would just get turned off overnight - there would almost certainly be a notice period in which the mods or other interested parties could make alternate arrangements either for the community to migrate or for someone to take over the ukw brand and administration.

I also think its a bit harsh to accuse rob of huffing - he tried to set summat up and it didnt fly, its only natural that anyone in that position would feel a bit put out - much the same happened to tom over the turning compo IIRC

 

[big soft moose]

Praps we need a 'sister' website that can be run and maintained better. But the forum would stay here.

I could set that up. A woodworking education and resource site....?

nice idea tom but isnt that basically what the rest of ukw was supposed to be , and its basically fallen by the wayside through lack of input and update - and while i dont doubt your good intentions presumably you also have other life pressures that would get in the way (job, daughter, swimbo, health etc ) so pretty soon you'd get people moaning about you not doing it "properly" or that they could do it "better"

Also an "official" sister site would require "official" approval and so on arround...

 

[wizer]

I think what people fail to understand about this forum is that it's a private business, not a public society. Whilst the members make it, they don't actualy have any say about how things are run. The moderators wouldn't normally have any power other than to moderate posts. Which is why we've all been frustrated trying to get hold of Charley when he's handed control over to a 'team' of mods. They are unpaid and largely unthanked, so it's understandable how things become complacent and stagnant.

As I say, something could be setup to run along side this forum to provide all the additional community functions that we need (and that all the other forums have on the net).

 

[laird]

.....................edit : and very quick action from noel there , tis now a point in the read this first

As the "read first" is loccked, forgive me if I ask here. I trust, and hope, Charley is not "not contactable" due to illness ?

 

[wizer]

nice idea tom but isnt that basically what the rest of ukw was supposed to be , and its basically fallen by the wayside through lack of input and update - and while i dont doubt your good intentions presumably you also have other life pressures that would get in the way (job, daughter, swimbo, health etc ) so pretty soon you'd get people moaning about you not doing it "properly" or that they could do it "better"

Also an "official" sister site would require "official" approval and so on arround...

The reason I am suggesting this is because the rest of this site has fallen by the wayside. Unless you haven't noticed, I spend 10-12 hours on this site. When I'm at work, it's longer. I have a massive amount of devotion to this site. I'm also a qualified web developer.

This idea is in no way meant to undermine or muscle in on this forum in anyway. It would be independent and not carry the UKW name.