Avoiding Covid 19

[Chris152]

My understanding is that soap is good, it interferes with the lipid layer which makes the virus stick to things so they get washed down the drain when you rinse. Wholly different mechanism to bleach and alcohol, both of which kill the virus but only at the right concentration and with a bit of time.

I know there is still some risk, but you can't avoid all risk so it's a balance.

As this goes on, and I suspect lock down will in some form for many more weeks, our mental health and relationships will be just as important as physical health. Good to be careful, I'm trying not to become obsessive.

I just watched the Ch4 house cleaning programme (https://www.channel4.com/programmes/cor ... /71178-001)
and it says that soap will destroy the outer, protective layer and thus inactivate the virus. Using both bleach and soap should happen in two steps apparently - remove organic matter with a wipe, then use soap or bleach to disinfect.
The section on this starts at 16'.40" in.
I'm only raising the issue because i prefer the idea of soapy water to bleach with kids in the house, but can't go splashing water around on all sorts to wash the virus away - which, if I've listened correctly, shouldn't be necessary even with soap?

Point taken about becoming obsessive/ mental health, quite possible after watching that programme! As a youngster I had ocd and believe me, it can be crippling if you can't keep things in perspective.

 

[Richard_C]

I guess you are right about soap destroying it. The nucleic acids are still there but it can't bond to anything, bit like a very powerful car on slick tyres on a frozen lake.

I'm using soap and water inside the house, and a mix of meths which is 99% ethanol and all purpose cleaner, about 4 to 1, to spray things like doorbell and outside handles if they have been used. Rare round here but deliveries ring-and-run. Leave a minute and wipe. All meths with no mix evaporates too fast. No idea if it's the best thing but I had some. This is not advice!

 

[Chris152]

Can anyone help with this, please?

It's the boy's 17th tomorrow and i've just bought stuff for lunch - including strawberries, salad and things like that. Wrappers safely disposed of, but then I got to thinking. And possibly I'm going nuts. How long ago can I expect someone to have handled the fruit and salad? It'll have been chilled since, is it possible/ likely that any virus will still be active on those things that we normally just rinse? There don't seem to be any options for cleaning them!

Also, while singing happy birthday, do we have to be washing our hands, too?

Main para is a serious question. Thanks.

 

[Richard_C]

It's a good question, I've not worried about it because swallowing the virus will consign it to the acids swimming about in our stomachs and we don't breath food in. I guess there might be some slim risk of transfer from food to finger to nostril, so best use cutlery rather than finger food and don't stick your knife and spoon up your nose. If it pre-packed pre-cooked like crisps then I doubt there is any risk at all.

I've found a good page on the Irish food safety website, mainly aimed at food producers and retailers but relevant:

https://www.fsai.ie/faq/coronavirus.html

WHO is encouraging a healthy diet and simply suggests normal food handling standards:

http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topic ... quarantine

A significant WHO effort seems to be dismissing false claims, like staying drunk will protect you .... worth a look around their site but maybe not too much, the cases by country data is pretty depressing.

And this US site said similar:

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-food-risk.html

(for some reason I never quite trust the motives of US magazines, I keep expecting an advert for magic elixir or snake oil antidote)

This is the proper US site, Fauchi's lot unless Trump fires him for being more trusted than Trump.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ssion.html

("This is not advice......")

 

[D_W]

fwiw, guys like fauci can be appointed or selected, but the machine that underlies them (the CDC in this case) is unaffected by politics. They follow the law instead.

The concerning thing for us here in the US Isn't whether or not the CDC has good intentions, it's that sometimes they will convey information from folks who may lack diligence (like the WHO parroting early China "facts" and the now infamous disconnecting that occurs any time "taiwan" is brought up).

Whatever CDC posts will never be intentionally misleading, though.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Richard - I really appreciate your reply. Something that confuses me is that, while it seems ok to eat stuff on account of our digestive system, if food was contaminated why wouldn't it get into our body via the same mechanism that it would if we were to put our hands to our mouths after touching a contaminated surface? No need to answer really, just wondering.
And it's a tricky one to advise on for sure (your caveat clearly noted!) - nobody really seems certain yet, and there must be lots of variables. But the Irish website's really helpful.
Erring on the side of caution, not wanting to give the lad anything he didn't bank on for his birthday, I think I'm going to go with taking all the external leaves off the lettuces and wash the rest thoroughly, put the tomatoes in the oven for a while and cook the strawberries down into something we can pour on the little apple pies (made by a fella who does make exceedingly good cakes) for dessert. And the reality is, he's not that interested in eating lettuce, like most teenagers, so i'm not sure why we're bothering with that tbh.
Strewth, the world's suddenly got very complex!
Thank you again.
C

 

[Droogs]

cover the lettuce in ceasar salad sauce, chicken and bacon and he will be

 

[Chris152]

Caesar salad sauce would involve me heading out to the shops again #-o but yea, bacon's got to be a good plan, and i have that in the freezer.
In fact, having said that and just checked, i reckon we have at least some of the key stuff to make the sauce. No anchovies, but the rest so we'll wing it!

 

[Droogs]

if you have primula or philidelphia use them with mayo and a wee touch of BBQ sauce and you will get a close taste

 

[Chris152]

All sorted, Droogs - his mum's doing the food so all I have to do is supervise (the virus police) and pour the wine! Might have a crack at that sauce myself tho...

 

[RogerS]

Any good, Chris

https://www.foodstandards.gov.scot/cons ... oronavirus

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Roger. The one line that bothers me (in that link and others) is
'Based on what we know about similar viruses, the virus would be inactivated through thorough cooking and the disinfection of food preparation surfaces using appropriate methods.'
But of course that doesn't refer to raw foods.
Anyway, being extra cunning (well, a bad housekeeper) I found a lettuce that I'd put on the side in the pantry/ cupboard several days ago, meaning to put it in the fridge. So it's been at room temp since, which should make it absolutely fine. It's a cos lettuce, so while the outer leaves are limp the whole inside is still lovely and crisp!
We're going to roast the tomatoes (which I only bought yesterday) in some olive oil and the rest is all normally cooked anyway. I'm probably being over-cautious but i'd rather that tbh.

I really appreciate the effort fellas.

 

[Lons]

Hope all goes well and he has a great birthday.

 

[Chris152]

Hope all goes well and he has a great birthday.

Thanks Lons - he had a good one, not quite what I'd had in mind a couple of months ago, but it was really nice. The sun stayed out for us so we were able to eat in the garden, which was lucky looking out the window this morning.
Tbh I found it all a bit exhausting tho - lots of stuff coming into the house that needed policing, quite relieved to be back to normal today. Sorry, "normal".

One thing I think I've learned - buy salad/ stuff you want to eat raw a few days before hand and leave at room temp til you're ready, in so far as you can.

 

[RogerS]

LOML just came back from the shops and said she'd might as well not bothered because it was abundantly clear that, following yesterdays' announcement re lockdown extension, all the PBP (panic-buying-pillocks) had been out in force yesterday as the shelves were bare.

 

[Rorschach]

LOML just came back from the shops and said she'd might as well not bothered because it was abundantly clear that, following yesterdays' announcement re lockdown extension, all the PBP (panic-buying-pillocks) had been out in force yesterday as the shelves were bare.

That's strange, our local shop was more full than ever this morning. Even lots of flour.

 

[HappyHacker]

Two hour queue at local Tesco, no idea if they have much in stock.

 

[Chris152]

I just read this article and found it helpful in terms of what we can reasonably do to protect ourselves:
https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/ ... ujCYquk68k
Hopefully it's accurate...

 

[Bodgers]

I just read this article and found it helpful in terms of what we can reasonably do to protect ourselves:
https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/ ... ujCYquk68k
Hopefully it's accurate...

That's a great article.

The point about not equating a scientific test of how survivable a virus is on a given surface Vs real world scenarios makes perfect sense. I don't think leaving packages alone for 72 hours before even touching it is a proportional response to the risk. Just open stuff, discard, and wash your hands straight away.

 

[Richard_C]

Agree. We can never be 100% sure we don't get it, it's about risk reduction and the previous post (with an analogy suitable for this forum) hits the nail on the head.

I'm trying not to obsess.