Attaching wooden treads to concrete steps?

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Froggy

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A friend want me to attach wooden treads to concrete steps. I know there are several ways to do this but as I've never done this before I would like to ask the experts how they would do it? What I'm a little worried about is the treads wobbling, if I just screw them down, if there are any uneven spots on the concrete steps.

TIA, Froggy.
 
I've often used 1 part assembly foam, of the low expansion variety. No screws, just weigh the tread down for a minute or two
and move on to the next one...
 
dzj":u4sf3o0n said:
I've often used 1 part assembly foam, of the low expansion variety. No screws, just weigh the tread down for a minute or two
and move on to the next one...

I know this is going to sound like a 'how long is a piece of string question' BUT could you give me an idea of how much foam you use per tread? For example do you put spots of it on or cover the whole tread?
 
phil.p":2zd0tcp3 said:
This is the stuff -
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p78519? ... lyurethane
a couple of screws and this stuff expands to fill your gaps. The treads need fixing down mechanically as well or the adhesive will lift them off. You can buy a slower setting one.
Phil when you say 'Mechanically' I assume you mean attach the riser to a groove in the tread and the same with the tread into the riser?
 
Froggy":2cwqvp41 said:
I know this is going to sound like a 'how long is a piece of string question' BUT could you give me an idea of how much foam you use per tread? For example do you put spots of it on or cover the whole tread?

No, not the whole surface of the tread, perhaps a third, maybe less. I usually put 3 or 4 half inch lines along the length of the tread.
Depends if the concrete beneath is level or not.
When you lay down a tread or two, you'll get the hang of it. Sometimes the foam needs a bit more time to set, depends
on the temperature, the manufacturer and so on.
HTH
 
phil.p":vttlyzcj said:
This is the stuff -
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p78519? ... lyurethane
a couple of screws and this stuff expands to fill your gaps. The treads need fixing down mechanically as well or the adhesive will lift them off. You can buy a slower setting one.


Are you sure that is the stuff?

In the link it just looks like normal polyurethane wood glue, in which case the foam has zero strength. There may be specialist foams that do have some strength, but the dried foam from regular pu glue can be squashed flat with light finger pressure.
 
Froggy":uj906j4z said:
phil.p":uj906j4z said:
This is the stuff -
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p78519? ... lyurethane
a couple of screws and this stuff expands to fill your gaps. The treads need fixing down mechanically as well or the adhesive will lift them off. You can buy a slower setting one.
Phil when you say 'Mechanically' I assume you mean attach the riser to a groove in the tread and the same with the tread into the riser?

Not necessarily, I just meant you must make sure what you are gluing doesn't move before the adhesive sets. Screw it, weight it or in the case of a quick setting one just stand on it for a few minutes. Use gloves - the stuff is filthy and virtually impossible to get off your hands, although meths or isopropyl (poss. cellulose) will get it off if you get to it quickly as will some of the industrial wipes. But you need to be bleedin' quick. A garden mister or empty cleaner spray is useful to damp everything down as the adhesive reacts to moisture - which of course is a point in its favour when used for construction purposes - if the substrate is a bit damp it doesn't throw the glue off.

Custard - yes.
It has minimal expansion compared to the wood adhesives, but enough to stop rocking or loosening over an area. I glued rebated thresholds down which had different gaps from one side to the other as the two floors were running in opposite directions and never had an atom of movement.
 
Hello,

Strictly speaking, MS polymer or something similar fulfils building regs. Pink grip, construction adhesjves, expanding polyurethane etc, are not suitable. Just saying!

Mike.
 
woodbrains":3dk0s8vb said:
Hello,

Strictly speaking, MS polymer or something similar fulfils building regs. Pink grip, construction adhesjves, expanding polyurethane etc, are not suitable. Just saying!

Mike.

Can you elaborate please... I have a similar task in mind. What exactly is 'MS polymer' and what part of building regs do I need to refer to when fitting wooden treads on concrete stairs. Is there a specific BS number for the adhesive?

Thanks
Dee
 
Hello,

For things like stairs, you must use a 'structural' adhesive, regular wood glues are not structural, neither are the usual gun applied construction adhesives that builders and joiners use.

There IS NO STRENGTH in the expanded polyurethane glues foam, so no good either.

MS polymer is thick and bridges small gaps and is structural. There are a few others, but the name escapes me. BandQ do a structural adhesive for stair treads etc, not sure if it is MS polymer or not, but will bond to concrete and is gap filling.

Mike.
 
If you don't mind me asking, what is the tread timber? and what is the riser finish to be? is it interior or exterior, and what level and type of foot traffic will it have to handle? An interior office stairwell will be different to say a set of warehouse exterior loading bay steps etc. I would suggest you try this...
TEST your chosen timber by fixing a section of it (solid bed method) to a concrete surface using Ardex X77s rapid setting single part flexible tile adhesive with Ardex P4 primer to all mating surfaces. You may need to mechanically clean the step surfaces if they are not new or are contaminated in any way. This stuff dries in under an hour and then you can fix the tread down as you prefer ( you will be surprised at the strength of this bond but don't be tempted to rely on it solely).
Oak dose not like cement so be sure to prime it thoroughly prior to testing it. This primer will seal the mating surface of the timber against any moisture penetration and likely staining from the cement based adhesive components.
I have used this method for donkeys years inside and out and I can tell you it is a bomb proof and very reliable way to fix timber to brick or concrete. You will have zero voids and a perfect very strong initial bond between the cement based surface and whatever timber you use especially in exterior applications. This adhesive is also has pretty good tanking like quality which is also a benefit.
But the thing to do is prove all this this to yourself with a test.

Within two hours you will learn more about sticking your wood to cementitious surfaces than you ever thought you needed to know.

The learning curve will cost you about £40.00 but the knowledge gives you a priceless new understanding for many other applications for setting timbers for all sorts of leveling and straightening applications.

We stick floor tiles down with this stuff, straight onto ply etc... think about what is has to achieve to do that.

Sounds a bit rude but I would call it bedding and screwing
 
Angle grinder, rawl plugs, job done. If you're expecting significant traffic on the steps you might want to use M8 anchors instead of rawl plugs.
 
screwpainting":lre1myvf said:
If you don't mind me asking, what is the tread timber? and what is the riser finish to be? is it interior or exterior, and what level and type of foot traffic will it have to handle? An interior office stairwell will be different to say a set of warehouse exterior loading bay steps etc. I would suggest you try this...
TEST your chosen timber by fixing a section of it (solid bed method) to a concrete surface using Ardex X77s rapid setting single part flexible tile adhesive with Ardex P4 primer to all mating surfaces. You may need to mechanically clean the step surfaces if they are not new or are contaminated in any way. This stuff dries in under an hour and then you can fix the tread down as you prefer ( you will be surprised at the strength of this bond but don't be tempted to rely on it solely).
Oak dose not like cement so be sure to prime it thoroughly prior to testing it. This primer will seal the mating surface of the timber against any moisture penetration and likely staining from the cement based adhesive components.
I have used this method for donkeys years inside and out and I can tell you it is a bomb proof and very reliable way to fix timber to brick or concrete. You will have zero voids and a perfect very strong initial bond between the cement based surface and whatever timber you use especially in exterior applications. This adhesive is also has pretty good tanking like quality which is also a benefit.
But the thing to do is prove all this this to yourself with a test.

Within two hours you will learn more about sticking your wood to cementitious surfaces than you ever thought you needed to know.

The learning curve will cost you about £40.00 but the knowledge gives you a priceless new understanding for many other applications for setting timbers for all sorts of leveling and straightening applications.

We stick floor tiles down with this stuff, straight onto ply etc... think about what is has to achieve to do that.

Sounds a bit rude but I would call it bedding and screwing

The wood is Walnut in an interior setting and domestic use. Thank you for the concise description.
 
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