Attaching to an old church

[Woodchip Wilbur]

Paint the magnets
to match the stonework.

This whole idea is interesting.

1) If I start epoxying anything to stonework, someone is going to start having a hissy fit. The attachment is going to have to be into the mortar.

2) I have some 3mm dia neodymium magnets that I had toyed with using - but, as the mortar joints are recessed from the face of the uneven stonework, it would not be possible to get them to stick out far enough to engage with another magnet on the back of the board (reminder: these are foam board panels. They weigh in at under 150g).

3) It might be possible to use them in some locations, but, if they are so neat and invisible as they could possibly be made, once they are detached, few people would be able to put them back up again as they would never find the right spot!!

I suspect that this is a case where, the more high-tech you go, the more collateral problems you introduce. I can make sure that the small nail heads are placed where they are unlikely (I'm the H&S guy - I'll never say "never"!) to cause a problem. The "technology" is plain and obvious to any cleaner or visitor who detaches one and there's little to go wrong mechanically. These boards have to appear just to "be there" with no visible means of support and that achieves it.

 

[Droogs]

I was just messing about, I'm not in the slightest bit religious. I did hear of a local church that may get closed due to no one going there and it needing a new roof, so I emailed the c.of.e to see if they want to sell ( it'd make me a fantastic house, apart from all the dead people in the garden )..... no response though

Church of Scotland does this all the time

 

[baldkev]

Church of Scotland does this all the time

How cheap is that???? A single garage here would cost more!!!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I doubt the following is going to help your current conundrum, but I was rather taken by this as a design concept :
https://www.quickcrop.ie/product/handmade-tripod-ladder
I like how it folds flat when not in use (and not ugly if on display): my initial plan is for a clothes dryer using the same style - I'm sick and tired of the appallingly cheap, nasty Chinese metal and plastic monstrosities that inevitably fall apart every six weeks. Perhaps as lecterns, easels, display stands etc the same approach may also work? You may even want a step ladder. 3 sticks and some hinges - how hard could it be?

 

[Stuart Moffat]

i Never thought I’d be writing something like this, but oddly I have a lot of relevant experience of dealing with quirky problems of fixing much heavier stuff to the walls and pillars of quite a few of the nations treasured grade 1 buildings, be they cathedrals concert halls or university college chapels and ding rooms. In one this month I was asked to fix two video cameras (for streaming concerts and services) to very old black marble pillars that I could strap round the back. For these I made a pair of wooden mounts with a back that catered for the radius of the pillar , and neoprene stuck to the wooden mount. I then put slots through the back to accommodate a pair of very long black cable ties. 9mm x 1400mm and with a very adequate breaking strain.
I also was asked to fix another pair of cameras to a pair of pillars that are part of a cluster that you can’t strap round the back (which sound a bit like your problem). Crucially with mine, each one is more than half a circle, so at the moment I am making a clamp that will go past the half way point, and a pivot point behind the camera a bit like a pair of scissors,and again padded with neoprene. I mostly permitted to fix into mortar joints of any age, but would always steer clear of any form of adhesive.

 

[John Brown]

Small drones.

 

[YoungSalt]

Well, you have two options which would leave the stonework and fabric of the church completely undamaged. First off,Tying a chord around the pillar, then hanging the board off the chord. Secondly, stick on velcro.

 

[John Brown]

Can't you just pray to god to keep them suspended? Seems like the obvious answer...

 

[Woodchip Wilbur]

Well, you have two options which would leave the stonework and fabric of the church completely undamaged. First off,Tying a chord around the pillar, then hanging the board off the chord. Secondly, stick on velcro.

Suggestions are all beginning to tend towards the bizarre!

Young Salt, I'm sure you've read this thread through, so you'll know that "chords" (we have plenty of those - but they come, mainly from the organ!) are not an option. As I work round the church, so far, I've found only two spots where these will go onto straightforward free-standing pillars. I could use cords around these - but they would be a 360-degree eyesore - and as I am trying to keep these interpretation boards away from the main worship space, then they will introduce a distraction. That's two of them. The other 18 or so will still need a different solution.

You'll also read that glue of any sort is a basic no-no. Adhesive Velcro is for smooth intact surfaces. It is rubbish on a rough friable stone face - so it would have to be backed up with some form of glue. And we don't do that.

As I wrote on Sunday (I think), I am, for most of them, using small masonry nails in the lime mortar and hanging them direct. It is the simplest, cheapest, least obtrusive way. At least one will be on a blackboard easel type stand as there's no suitable wall - but as the whole point of all this work is to remove clutter, I want to introduce as little more-clutter in its place as possible.

 

[Cabinetman]

If there is a place where there isn’t too much mortar between stones how about a piece of wood attached to the back of the foamboard that is slightly tapered and then knock that tightly in between the stones. Ian
Edit, you will have to make each piece individually to fit the position.

 

[Woodchip Wilbur]

If there is a place where there isn’t too much mortar between stones how about a piece of wood attached to the back of the foamboard that is slightly tapered and then knock that tightly in between the stones. Ian

Good plan - but I don't think there's anywhere like that - at least, not where I want an interpretation board! All the joints are well pointed with a good lime mortar. The nails are doing good!

 

[Jacob]

..... I could use cords around these - but they would be a 360-degree eyesore - .......

You could use nice chords - think dressing gowns, pom-poms, ecclesiastical purple?

 

[Woodchip Wilbur]

You could use nice chords - think dressing gowns, pom-poms, ecclesiastical purple?

...but they'd still be cords, not chords!

All sorts of ropey-type things would be possible - but read my lips!!
1) There are only two out of some 20 or so that could be tied in this way
2) I am trying to make the fixings invisible, not MORE visible (though pretty)

I have a ropewalk. I make cordage - and could turn out things in all manner of colours or patterns (in the different liturgical colours or whatever). But such a solution just doesn't fall within this brief.

 

[Jacob]

Spell it how you like!
What about coir boys holding bits of coir rope?
Seems to me that you have rejected all possible options and now looking for a miracle?

 

[Woodchip Wilbur]

Spell it how you like!
What about coir boys holding bits of coir rope?
Seems to me that you have rejected all possible options and now looking for a miracle?

No... I haven't rejected all options! I have carefully read all comments. I have taken on board a number of suggestions. I have modified what I had planned in the light of those.

In my original post, I said,

My current thought is to use (where possible) the aforementioned picture hook pins without the actual hook part and a small picture hanging D-ring, attached to the foam board with some duct tape.

Is there a better solution?

After a thorough and useful discussion, it became clear that the answer is basically, "No, there's not any much better solution to this particular problem than the one already suggested."

I therefore decided to go ahead with that totally unmiraculous option. I said on Saturday evening:

I've been thinking a fair bit today - and all sorts of suggestions on here have been really helpful. One or two of the signs will go on a simple lectern (or blackboard easel) as there's nowhere obvious to put them otherwise. The rest will hang on the little masonry nails I mentioned originally. The DAC are reasonably relaxed about the lime mortar indoors. The hole will be unnoticeable if the pin comes out.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear then that this was the decision I had made - and that this seems to be the best way to go. But that was the desision I made and that is the way that I am already putting up those interpretation boards.

What I have tried to do is to engage with this discussion and to speak of why some solutions couldn't work. I know that your "choir boy" suggestion was not intended to be practical, any more than drones - but it, perhaps, shows that you've not grasped that these signs are nothing to to with services when people are around in church, but they are for those who come in during the week to look around this amazing building of ours.

So thank you everybody! I have (as often) been educated and informed by a number of your comments and suggestions (recently I appreciated the magnets, the pyramid stepladder and Stuart's description of fixing things to pillars. Good to hear that he, too, is barred from adhesives!). But any further suggestions will be useful for future projects, but not this one...

(and I'll spell ropes, "cords" and music, "chords" because that is the correct way!)

 

[Daniel2]

@Jacob - you're a very naughty boy !

 

[Jester129]

Another one for the future - fishing line? It's strong and almost invisible (well, the thin stuff is).

 

[Woodchip Wilbur]

Another one for the future - fishing line? It's strong and almost invisible (well, the thin stuff is).

Indeed. I often use that for display set-up. For the sake of the history of this thread, here's a rough section of our pillars. Any monofil/tape/chord/cord/rope/dressing gown pompom etc around the pillar would span that gap and, because the info boards need to be at a reasonably child-friendly height, either the cord will be spanning a gap, just at a child-friendly height (and, yes, we have school assemblies in here!) or it will be around the pillar much higher - and the board left on a long string to waft around in the draughts (of which we have a plentiful stock).

However, there's one spot (nowhere near a pillar) where this might, actually, provide a solution. I've certainly GOT plenty of it! Thanks.

 

[Droogs]

How about clamps based around proportional calipers like below