Apprenticeships

[Jeffsaa]

Hi all.

I am looking to change career path and am very interested in getting into the carpentry industry through an apprenticeship, specifically carpentry and joinery. I would like the ability to both create and install myself. While I have no official qualifications in that line of work I am a very hands on and practical person. Having spent my life 'tinkering' and making things from wood to Lego and everything in between! So I have no doubt I'll be able to pick it up naturally.

I am somewhat older than most youngsters going into apprenticeships (I turn 30 in July) and have a military background, along with private security experience in several counties across the world. I do believe that the transferable skills I currently possess will bring a high level maturity, professionalism and eagerness to learn to the trade. (Gone are the days of youthful ignorance and naivety for me, not that all youngsters are like that!)

My only concern is my age. While I believe one is never too old to learn new tricks, it is the financial implications of doing an apprenticeship that are of concern. I simply cannot afford to work for £3/4 an hour for a year.

I live in London (Wandsworth) and would appreciate ANY and ALL advise from you guys! Thank you.

I look forward to hearing from you guy!!!


Jeff

 

[Adam9453]

Unfortunately its an all too common problem of trying to finance the training period.
I'd suggest saving up as much as you can to get some cash behind you and then start approaching local joinery companies and explaining that you want to get into the trade. Explain you're happy to start from the bottom despite your age and throw your self into it. I'm sure someone will appreciate your efforts and give you a chance. Negotiating a salary that you can get by on will be your biggest challenge but perhaps you could supplement your income with secondary part time work while you are working/training on a low wage? It will be hard work but if its worth doing then its worth the effort.
Good luck.

An alternative is to build up your expertise by doing work for family and friends, this should also allow you to earn some money to buy the tools you are going to need and help you learn some valuable lessons. Youtube is great for training yourself how to do things and the best bit is if you need help, then come on here and ask whatever it is that you need to know. This is a very helpful forum and full of talented professionals and hobbyists.

 

[petermillard]

What's your ultimate goal - to get a job working for a firm, or be a self-employed maker/installer? If it's the latter, and you're as 'hands on and practical' as you say, then what's stopping you doing that now? Or to put it another way, what are you expecting to get out of an apprenticeship that you don't already possess?

FWIW when I started doing this for a living I was 40, I had cards printed and shoved them through people's doors, putting myself about as a handyman. 16 years on, it's developed into a tidy little one-man-band carpentry & cabinetmaking business (using the terms loosely there, as a customer might...) that keeps me nicely busy.

You're in London; there's plenty of people on your doorstep who need things doing, it's just a question of wether you're prepared to fulfil that need. Fun little project; stand at your front door, and visualise half a mile in front of you, behind you, to the left and right. Imagine how many flats and houses, shops and offices there are in that square mile; I will absolutely guarantee that there's at least 50 quids worth of work that needs doing in every single one of them.

So, are you going to do that, or leave it to someone else?

Best of luck, whichever way you decide to go.

Peter

 

[mind_the_goat]

Could you find someone to pay you a sensible rate for 2 or 3 days a week and fund your own college course? It would free up your employer from paperwork and give you more control over what you do. Of course you would need to ensure your employer would give you the experience you needed, not just have you sweep floors for 2 years.

 

[Roughcut]

Might be worth investigating if there are any City & Guilds Carpentry courses in the evening at colleges within travelling distance.
I would of thought that an apprenticeship at age 30 will be hard to come by, so if you can at least get a year or two of relevant qualifications gained you might find more opportunities to get your foot in the door.

 

[custard]

Hello Jeff, based on what you say and where you are this would be my first port of call,

http://www.thebcc.ac.uk

I've worked alongside quite a few people who have taken BCC courses and they've all spoken highly of their training and they've all been very competent craftsmen.

Good luck!

 

[Jelly]

On the plus side, as a real adult (i.e. over 21) you're entitled to the full minimum wage even as an apprentice, unfortunately that also means there is no funding for the training, so you'd have to really impress a prospective employer to get an offer of a job and college course.

If I was you I'd seriously consider speaking to some firms to see if they'd take you on in a semi-skilled/laborer role whilst you go to college, giving you the opportunity to gain real world experience, and them an enthusiastic, increasingly capable pair of hands... Might still be a difficult pitch, not to mention financially tight.

 

[RossJarvis]

As someone who used to work in a "vocationally" based Further Education College I'd say be very very aware of anything that sells itself as an "apprenticeship". Most "schemes" and "officially recognised" courses are little more than a racket. Anything run by any form of college is best left at arms length.

Your best bet is to be taken on by someone who runs a successful business who is willing to take on an unskilled person who may leave them in a couple of years, if they're any good, or who takes on the risk of employing a complete t****. Occasionally a good tradesman will take on a good unskilled worker who will develop with the employer.

Regardless of what you may hear in the press there is virtually no "apprenticeship" mechanism in the UK today. This disappeared several decades ago. "Modern Apprenticeships" (or whatever they're called this week) despite good intentions have actually become a complete failure, hounded by "Further Education Colleges" which are nearly totally based on poorly founded "Commercial Enterprise" bases to make money. Where I used to work (which is a highly regarded College by the way) the people who signed up apprenticeships knew nothing about the courses they were selling and worked on a commission basis!!!!!

So as I said, do not, DO NOT, go for anything called an "apprenticeship". Find a successful businessman/woman in the trade who is willing to take a risk on someone who may have limited skill to start. Remember, you may not actually earn him/her anything to start with and may cost him/her money.

If you can't afford to start a new career on low/no wages, you can't actually afford to start that career. Remember, in days gone by an apprentice's family paid the employer to take them on.

Sorry to sound a bit negative, but it is possible to do but not easy. If you don't have the determination and ability it won't happen, however if you do it probably will.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Contact the CITB and see what advice they offer. I'd rather have someone your age who is keen as an apprentice over a school leaver any day of the week. I can count on one hand the number of decent apprentices we've had that were under 20 and the decent ones as soon as they get sent out to site in London never come back to workshop once they get a taste for price work

 

[BearTricks]

I'm going to add that I'm 25 and have struggled to the point of giving up and applying for jobs in the field I was working in previously.

Adult apprenticeships might as well be an urban legend, despite what the government make a half-baked job of insisting.

There isn't much incentive for a company to hire adult apprentices because the wage is higher than that of someone younger who they can hammer in to shape. Plus, the new national minimum wage for over 25s is another blow because it makes anyone looking to get in on the bottom rung less attractive the older they are.

I'll admit, I'm in an area completely devoid of any woodworking potential. There are few good lumber yards and there isn't really a market for it. You're in a much better position. There's a high concentration of people doing work down there so you'll have more options, plus there's plenty of people happy to pay top dollar for one off pieces.



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[El Barto]

Hi all.

I am looking to change career path and am very interested in getting into the carpentry industry through an apprenticeship, specifically carpentry and joinery. I would like the ability to both create and install myself. While I have no official qualifications in that line of work I am a very hands on and practical person. Having spent my life 'tinkering' and making things from wood to Lego and everything in between! So I have no doubt I'll be able to pick it up naturally.

I am somewhat older than most youngsters going into apprenticeships (I turn 30 in July) and have a military background, along with private security experience in several counties across the world. I do believe that the transferable skills I currently possess will bring a high level maturity, professionalism and eagerness to learn to the trade. (Gone are the days of youthful ignorance and naivety for me, not that all youngsters are like that!)

My only concern is my age. While I believe one is never too old to learn new tricks, it is the financial implications of doing an apprenticeship that are of concern. I simply cannot afford to work for £3/4 an hour for a year.

I live in London (Wandsworth) and would appreciate ANY and ALL advise from you guys! Thank you.

I look forward to hearing from you guy!!!


Jeff

I was in the same position as you when I lived in London and I just reached out to a few small operations and asked if I could come and work with them when possible. They were only too happy to oblige and also to offer advice.

Apprenticeships for an adult (I'm 30) are damn hard to make work. If you're already a full fledged tax and rent paying grown up (sigh), it's hard. As Custard said, the BCC is good and also reasonably priced. I looked into it but the courses are five days per week and although I'm lucky to have a very flexible job that allows me to pick and choose when I work, I still couldn't swing it. I think the only way I could have done it is if I was doing 2 or 3 days a week with a small outfit and then working my regular jobs on off days. I didn't find anything while I was still living on London but that doesn't mean you won't.

 

[cowfoot]

Hello Jeff, based on what you say and where you are this would be my first port of call,

http://www.thebcc.ac.uk

I've worked alongside quite a few people who have taken BCC courses and they've all spoken highly of their training and they've all been very competent craftsmen.

Good luck!

+1 for the Building Crafts College
Great facilities, friendly staff, good mix of students (inc. myself once upon a time!).

 

[Myfordman]

Seen this? carpentry-and-joinery-apprenticeships-t109431.html

 

[Peter Sefton]

The BCC does some good work and I would assume has good trade connections.

Otherwise as a fit and enthusiastic 30 year old you might get a site labouring job as a chippy's hand with a decent firm, if your good someone will soon notice your talents and want to bring you on.

Cheers Peter

 

[dzj]

" Remember, in days gone by an apprentice's family paid the employer to take them on. "

Also the master craftsman would be very hesitant to take on a local student. Future competition and all that.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Good luck to you mate!

Can't add a great deal to all the clever people here. If you're not working full time at the moment. Do some voluntary work where you can use those skills. Take pictures of what you do and build up a little portfolio. (eg Deen City Farm in Morden has volunteers building sheds, benches and fences) They provide the materials you can keep a picture of the end result to show people your work.

There are also local/neighbourhood forums. I am on Nextdoor's forum. It only has posts from people within my neighbourhood and every day there are requests on there for someone to hang a gate, repair a fence after a storm, fit a door lock, put up shelves etc. Get on there and you get local work requests emailed straight to your inbox.

All the best - hope everything works out for you.

Martin