Anyone worked with holly?

[stuckinthemud]

I am toying with the idea of building a (recumbent) wooden bike frame from holly as I have a few suitable lengths of 3” round wood seasoned. Google tells me it used to be used for engineering but doesn’t explain any further. I have made a long bow from it and some carved bits and pieces but have no real experience with it. As it is so heavy I will possibly have to hollow it out strategically to keep the weight down. I may also have to steam a fairly major curve or two into it. Any thoughts/advice welcome.
Andrew

 

[Fitzroy]

None, but I’d love to see photos when you get into it. Fascinating project from the sounds of it. Sorry nothing but enthusiasm to aid you.

 

[TRITON]

I am toying with the idea of building a (recumbent) wooden bike frame from holly as I have a few suitable lengths of 3” round wood seasoned. Google tells me it used to be used for engineering but doesn’t explain any further. I have made a long bow from it and some carved bits and pieces but have no real experience with it. As it is so heavy I will possibly have to hollow it out strategically to keep the weight down. I may also have to steam a fairly major curve or two into it. Any thoughts/advice welcome.
Andrew

Fellow Andy
I would look towards lamination, as they while a similar weight can be easier to produce curves than steam bending a big chunk of timber.
Plus you can mold in sections for bolt through parts, threaded bits, dropouts, a headtube etc. Or if the main bearer needs to split to accommodate the rear wheel, and it would be considerably stronger.

I've even got just the set of disc brakes for you to fit

Some design ideas here.
https://texasrecumbents.wordpress.com/wood-bikes/

 

[Valhalla]

Never worked with holly, but I did work with her mate Ash-ley........ I'll get my coat

 

[TRITON]

 

[Old Chippy]

Some years ago I turned a number of bowls and pots from holly. If memory serves, the wood was very light almost white in colour and the items made, turned out to have a lovely smooth finish. The wood was also very easy to work with.

 

[Jameshow]

Never worked with holly, but I did work with her mate Ash-ley........ I'll get my coat

Yew didn't!!!

 

[dickm]

From limited experience working with holly (turning and the odd small box), I'd be very chary of using it for anything as highly stressed as a bike frame. It's not a very flexible, and quite brittle wood. If I were going down the route of a wooden frame, ash would be my choice. It's not as pale white as holly, but much tougher, more resilient and possibly lighter too. Morgan car bodies are built on it!
Somewhere I've seen a conventional bike frame made of bamboo, which seemed pretty successful.

 

[recipio]

I couldn't think of a worse wood to use. It's heavy and brittle and not especially strong. I order it from the US to make box lines and its tricky to use being prone to tearout.
Ash is a far better alternative.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Biggest problem with ash is I don't have any. Biggest issue with laminating is the waste. Laminating seems to use 2 or 3mm thick strips, so the saw kerf will be as wide as the laminate, and if I am raiding my stock of hardwoods, that'll hurt - I have a mahogany mantlepiece that would do very nicely, but turning half of it into sawdust is something I would like to avoid if I can. I have some other hardwoods fully seasoned - quite a lot of sapele, a little yew, a small amount of elm, and of hazel, a couple of lengths of laurel, some indifferent apple and some pear. I have some very nice hawthorn and a lot of yellow pine, but that's from 100+ year old church pews - quite brittle and much of it is quite heavily figured, so not great as bending stock

Are you sure British holly is brittle, does it have different working properties from American holly maybe? It is heavy and prone to tear-out, as you say, but it is a class 2 bow-wood, and I would be very surprised if a brittle timber would be used as such

 

[Droogs]

Use a bandsaw rather than a table saw to make the laminations. You have to watch out for Holly as she keeps popping down the pub with Ivy

 

[TRITON]

You'd probably be better buying either bendy ply(3mm) or skin plywood(1.5mm)

 

[stuckinthemud]

I think the laminate needs to be unidirectional?

 

[HamsterJam]

I have some holly stashed in the garage although it is still a bit green. Turned a small pot from a one of the smaller pieces to see how green it was but it has warped considerably.
Lovely smooth texture and almost creamy colour..,,

We are moving house soon so will need to dispose of it. Anyone interested? (Collection Rugby/Coventry area)

 

[alex robinson]

I have turned a few pieces of UK holly and it is a wonderful timber, but would not be my choice for something structural. It is beautifully fine grained and takes detail and finish amazingly, but it is heavy and quite brittle. I would save that for something decorative, and start hunting for something like ash. Hazel might be ok, but I would still prefer the lamination route.

Do you have any way of cutting green timber? If you have a big bandsaw (or a chainsaw mill), you may be able to get a green ash log and but thin strips and dry them in some sort of press. This would get you thin strips for laminating without having to worry about wastage, and should dry in a few weeks.

Ash logs are everywhere currently sadly. If you source your own, make sure it is not from a tree that has been cut because of ash dieback. This tends to make the timber very brittle.

 

[dickm]

Are you sure British holly is brittle, does it have different working properties from American holly maybe? It is heavy and prone to tear-out, as you say, but it is a class 2 bow-wood, and I would be very surprised if a brittle timber would be used as such

Don't know anything about bow making, but since the inner side of the bow is in compression, holly should be OK for that? But not for the parts in tension.

 

[whereistheceilidh]

Agree with replies above. Bit of a waste of holly. Not strong enough. Laminate if you are using wood. None of the woods that you mentioned seem appropriate. If you must use wood use laminated spruce. Use epoxy resin for laminating .....and perhaps invest in a blade with a finer kerf. I have never found bandsaws ideal for fine laminations ....but then that is perhaps me...or my bandsaw....?

 

[stuckinthemud]

I always struggled cutting thin strips on a band saw and by the time I cleaned and trued the cut surface generally lost as much as if I had used a table saw. The only reason I had thought of using the holly was the Google reference to it being used in engineering, but I suspect it was more like rollers or bobbins or some such rather than in beams or springs. I will have a bit of a think. I may well go with stripping my sapele and laminating that with Semforite - it would be beautiful and though its not quite Brazilian mahogany, it should work - check out the bikes by Sano of Sano magic in Japan

 

[Sean Hellman]

Ive had ash, before dieback that was so brittle it was useless and all the legs on my stool broke. The round wood holly I have used is incredibly strong. If in doubt do some load bearing tests. If rot gets in then yes it is brittle.

 

[Davyc]

@HamsterJam would be interested in your Holly if you decide to dispose of it, I am in Coventry so could collect.
Give me a shout when you decide.cheers.