Any ol' arn - or hunting the cast-iron table saw

[Scrit]

Above: Wadkin AGS 12in circa 1959

Hi All

I periodically get PMs and emails from people enquiring about suitability of (particularly) Wadkin and Startrite table saws for use in a home workshop. A number of members have bought this sort of kit and posted some details here and I've also tried to help wherever I can (mainly from memory and use of sales bumf I've accumulated over time). It seems to me that it might be a good idea to try to condense any/all of our accumulated experience in this area into a couple of web pages. I've recently acquired an almost complete set of 1959 Wadkin Bursgreen sales leaflets so if people are willing to point me in the direction of their original posts, or to add to the knowledge base by adding to this thread then I'll be happy to stitch it all together in the form of a collection of web pages which would have the added advantages of recording a bit of the history our fast-disappearing woodworking machinery manufacturing sector and meaning in the future that I and others could point enquirers to a single repository on the web. It might also prove to be a useful place to deposit parts lists, manuals, etc if anyone has anything available

Sorry for the size of the images, but I feel the second one in particular brings home some of the reasons why the AGS was superior to other saws of it,s day some 45 years back - that cast-iron upper base says it all.

Responses please, in triplicate on the back of a postage stamp to......

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

nice one scrit, will be most useful if others help.

interesting to see a relatively small distance from front to blade.
bigger than my dewalt, but none the less, only about 12 inches i guess,
so how did larger panels get cut????

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

Hi Paul

Either on one of these:

Above: Wadkin BGP panel saw, circa 1962/64

or possibly one of these:

Above: White EA Panel Crosscut Saw saw from their 1947 catalogue

The date 1947 is not one of my mistypes, they really were being offered back then. Long rips would presumably be handled by a saw with a long run-off table and roller stands at the front, or alternatively a straight-line rip (capable of producing a dead straight rip cut over 8ft or more):

Above: Wadkin PU all-electric straight line rip from their 1936 catalogue

These PUs are even found in relatively small joinery works. But the granddaddy of them must be Altendorf (100 years old this year) who started their panel saw line before WWI (in 1906), produced the first ally sliding table in 1956 and invented the scoring saw unit in 1968.

Scrit

 

[Alf]

Above: White EA Panel Crosscut Saw saw from their 1947 catalogue

The date 1947 is not one of my mistypes, they really were being offered back then.

Gosh, I had no idea. Interesting stuff - thanks, Scrit. My only stuff is the small beer of Coronet and "Zyto" adverts.

Cheers, Alf

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

Nice idea Scrit, but to save the need to reinvent the wheel, it might be an idea to make contributions to this American site. I have an old (1940's) Walker-Turner 10" table saw that was imported just after the war. I managed to find full details and part list on Old Wood Working Machines http://www.owwm.com/

Angela

 

[Scrit]

Y'know, if I didn't know any better......... [-X

Nah! I'm sure you want a peek at the machine I missed out, the double-end crosscutting machine \/ :

Above: Sagar LN9 of 1935

Fascinating, what? :roll: A nery a riving kiife or guard in sight! 8-[

But this thread really started out about this sort of thing:

Which is why if anyone or can add to the pool of knowledge....

Scrit

 

[Scrit]

.... to save the need to reinvent the wheel, it might be an idea to make contributions to this American site.http://www.owwm.com/

Hi Angela

The problem with OWWM is that it is for North American machinery only. Search for Wadkin, Thomas Robinson, Thomas White or John Sagar and you will find scant reference - they're not American or Canadian. What we really need is a reference here.

Scrit

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

Scrit,

The problem with OWWM is that it is for North American machinery only

I think it is just that no one from the UK has submitted details of European machines to OWWM. I'm sure the site owner would be more than happy to take all your stuff, and others, and make it available online. It is an incredible site and, to me, makes sense to keep all such material in one archive.

By all means do your own thing if you wish - but would you please consider also contributing the same stuff to OWWM to help owners of those machines that may have migrated across country boundaries? And to help those of us that like simple searches?


Angela

 

[tigerturnings]

It might also prove to be a useful place to deposit parts lists, manuals, etc if anyone has anything available

I have a scanned (PDF) copy of the instruction manual that Ultracare sent me for my 12" AGS saw. I'd be happy to contribute it so long as there are no copyright issues that preclude me doing so. Flicking through it, I can't see the copyright symbol or written statement, does anyone know if is it the case that I can therefore freely distribute it?

Cheers

Neil

 

[Scrit]

Angela

With respect the original thrust of this thread was to elicit responses from people who had experience of Startrite and Wadkin table saws here in the UK. The idea is to set up a few web pages to act as a resource for anyone interested in purchasing/renovating light industrial table saws, at least initially, with possibly an expansion into other areas later on.

OWMM is an American site dedicated to North American manufacturers and whilst I feel it is an excellent resource for North American machinery such as your Walker-Turner I don't think it's a suitable repository for the sort of data we're talking about. They have been offered European stuff and turned it down, presumably because they regard it as outside of their remit.

Edit - quite from OWMM "....Do not confuse this maker with Thomas Robinson & Sons, a very large English manufacturer of woodworking machinery. That firm is not listed in this index because the index is restricted to North American makers."

Scrit

 

[Scrit]

I have a scanned (PDF) copy of the instruction manual that Ultracare sent me for my 12" AGS saw. I'd be happy to contribute it so long as there are no copyright issues that preclude me doing so. Flicking through it, I can't see the copyright symbol or written statement, does anyone know if is it the case that I can therefore freely distribute it?

Hi Neil

Thank you very much for the offer. For myself I still have a old Startrite 352 manual.

I have a contact at the current Wadkin company and could easily confirm whether or not the manual could be used as is or if it would be necessary to "do a Haynes", i.e. rewrite the manual and remove Wadkin trademarks (possibly the biggest stumbling block). I'll confirm this and come back to you

Scrit

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Those pictures of the Wadkin BGP and AGS saws certainly bring back memories Scrit. They were staples in the trade. The first company I worked for had one of each.

Apart from memories and experience of the kit I have nothing in the way of catalogues and the like I could contribute. However, I still find myself working with Wadkin kit: stroke sanders, thicknessers, planers, hollow chisel mortisers, overhead routers, etc..

I guess it'll be a while before all those old workhorses will disappear enirely. Slainte.

 

[mel]

when i wrote to you privatley my introduction was
"hail to the font of cast iron knowledge"
how true those words were
scrit ive still got this pattern makers book here for you, which is purely wadkin machines
pm me your contact details and i send it to you
good luck with the website
mel

 

[Scrit]

Paul

Today I came across this illustration from 1954 showing a small tablesaw (the Bursgreen MY) being used with no less than a 6ft x 6ft sliding table.

That illustration might also point the way towards how to build a sliding table for almost any table saw. Perhaps it also answers the question about how they cut up sheet materials in the past before panel saws became the norm. The MY saw is a curious one. It was Bursgreen's attempt at a lightweight saw before they came up with the famous AGS range and at about 250kg was very lightweight indeed. It had a sliding carraige "cousin" called the DD:

Does anyone own either of these or has ever seen them? I'd be really interested in seeing photos if anyone has one of these saws.

Edit: Not only that, but I'd appreciate some detailed photos and dimensions of the rip fence fine adjuster as I've just compared the DD illustrarion to my own Bursgreen bandsaw and the rip gfence appears to be identical - although I am missing a fine adjuster.....

Scrit

 

[Ian Dalziel]

I get home in about 10 days....i'll go to my local machine dealer who might have bought and sold one in the last 40 years or so...he is a mine of info and has a huge room full of manuals etc dating back many years...i am due him a visit and i'll ask


I

 

[superunknown]

...

 

[Colin C]

Scrit
I think there is one for sale Here

 

[MilesH]

Ref: post130757.html#p130757 Some photos of a Bursgreen MY: