answer me this

[sunnybob]

its a brand new irwin record 52 & 1/2 with the quick release and the upwards dog on the front jaw (another question, what does the 1/2 mean?) the faces are angled in towards the top, viewed form the side.
So far, and I admit its early days, it looks like the wood would be marked well before the jaws got to vertical.
yet another question, whats the best wood for the jaws? soft or hard

 

[Paul Chapman]

Don't worry about the jaws being angled - they are deliberately designed that way. The #52 1/2 denotes the size - a #52 is smaller. Choice of wood for the jaws is not critical - use whatever you have.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[AndyT]

If you use something reasonably strong, you can extend the effective width up to 18" or so, which can be handy when you want to clamp a board vertical, to one side of the bars. You will need some fixings to suit the tapped holes in the jaws - from memory they are 5/16" Whitworth unless that has changed on the modern non-Sheffield ones.

Some people (including me) like to have the back jaw set into the edge of the bench so the wooden part is flush all along; others (including Paul Sellers) prefer the vice to stick forward. Make your own choice!

 

[sunnybob]

well, after a bit more playing, I now believe the jaws will straighten up as pressure is applied. Time will tell as to whether the wood gets marked or not.

The holes on this vice are not tapped. they are just 7mm holes. I've used wood screws through the front vice face into the ply board for now, and the back board is held through the vice and into the metal box section with self cutting screws. That is bound to change. i might tap the holes, but then again, cast iron isnt that easy to thread.

As far as the vice goes, I've fallen between two camps then. My original plan (plan A) was the have the back face flush. But my woodyard man got the measurements wrong on the T&G boards. He told me they were 85mm wide so i planned accordingly. When delivered, I have 90mm boards. Have you had the same problems as me with plan A? i have NEVER achieved plan A.
So I had to rearrange the spacings. I've ended up with the rear face about 5mm in front of the bench edge.

Hey, its a bench, get over it. (lol).

 

[bridger]

I have softwood jaws on my vise, on the theory that I'd rather have the jaws damaged than the work. Scraps of soft pine in sizes to fit the vise are cheap finds for me.

If the jaws don't pull up parallel add a bit of shim at the bottom behind the wood face of the moveable jaw.

 

[sunnybob]

I have lots of softwood scraps. That might well be plan C,

with softwood I can see the vice working as advertised. with hardwood on there, the piece will certainly get marked tightening the jaws square.

 

[Mr_P]

My old vice came with mdf, works well for me.

Or get a bit of scrap leather from the market/ workshop heaven.

While you are visiting your son try and grab an eclipse 36 honing guide, takes the skill out of sharpening and cheap as chips.

 

[sunnybob]

last time I was in the UK, my son bought me a set of record chisels, including one of those honing guides. Its rubbish.
I even contacted record who said its fine. I sent them pictures om my chisel on its side in that guide, because it would not fit square . The chisels have squared sides, and the guide has angled slots..
they offered to replace it with another the same. How pointless is that?
I have record chisels that do not fit the record honing guide.
is it me?

 

[Mr_P]

The general rule with new tools is they are all rubbish unless they are expensive.

The majority of my hand tools are pre WW2.

Edit:
Haven't had my eclipse long but I absolutely love it. I've used it quite a few times to square up some very skewed irons. It did fail on a chariot iron that wasn't wide enough, haven't used it on chisels but if the chisel was very narrow that wouldn't work either.

We are bit spoiled over here in the UK, car boots and ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181775459266? ... EBIDX%3AIT

 

[sunnybob]

I have tried so hard to make this hobby work over the last 10 months. i just can not believe how truly awful every wood working tool is when its sold.
I bought a bandsaw that has a hundred faults. i bought a belt sander that was wired back to front from the factory and has already got noisy bearings (less than a dozen hours usage). I have a chisel sharpener that doesnt sharpen chisels made by the same manufacturer (the same manufacturer who sells sharpening stones that arent as wide as the plane blades your supposed to use it on.). A plane that will not cut square, even a router cutter that is not straight, and on ad infinitum.

If something doesnt go right soon, me and wood will be parting company.

 

[JakeS]

The chisels have squared sides, and the guide has angled slots..

I have the Wickes version of same (so far as I can see, it's pretty much identical in every important regard) and my square-sided chisels fit in it just fine. They don't go right into the triangular recess, sure, but the flat part above that is more than capable of holding them square enough to sharpen. I believe the triangular recess is just for holding plane blades. It's possible to move them if you really try, but if you're putting that much force on them while sharpening you're a) doing it wrong and b) likely to injure yourself, and chisels have the potential to make some really nasty holes in people.

I marginally prefer the Stanley guide for some of my chisels (some don't fit so well in it because of the way the base plate is indented), because it has two wheels rather than just one and therefore tips over sideways less often. But that's a user-error problem anyway. ;-)





Bear in mind that as much as people may go on about how perfectly square your chisel has to be ground and how important it is to get a precise angle and microbevel, it doesn't really matter if you sharpen your chisel with a half-degree skew on the end so long as it's the same half-degree skew each time. It doesn't even matter that much whether you can shave in the reflection off the back (or face, or whichever side that is), so long as the edge itself is sharp.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I have tried so hard to make this hobby work over the last 10 months. i just can not believe how truly awful every wood working tool is when its sold.
I bought a bandsaw that has a hundred faults. i bought a belt sander that was wired back to front from the factory and has already got noisy bearings (less than a dozen hours usage). I have a chisel sharpener that doesnt sharpen chisels made by the same manufacturer (the same manufacturer who sells sharpening stones that arent as wide as the plane blades your supposed to use it on.). A plane that will not cut square, even a router cutter that is not straight, and on ad infinitum.

If something doesnt go right soon, me and wood will be parting company.

I feel your pain. It's always seemed strange to me that so many woodworkers accept that everything they buy will need modification or alteration before using it.
There's no way we'd accept that with cars for instance.

Having said that it's definitely true that if you buy cheap modern tools you're almost always going to be disappointed.
There are companies making tools that are of a good quality but generally they ain't cheap.
The adage of getting what you pay for probably applies more to tools than anything else, especially important if you make your living from them.

Although they are eye wateringly expensive Lie Nielsen planes are universally well thought of. Quangsheng are a cheaper brand that seem to receive good reviews here. Same with Pax or Flinn handsaws, Narex Chisel.

Don't give up the fight though - that would be a great shame.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Oil stones are rarely the width of a plane iron - it doesn't matter a jot.

 

[sunnybob]

The chisels have squared sides, and the guide has angled slots..

I have the Wickes version of same (so far as I can see, it's pretty much identical in every important regard) and my square-sided chisels fit in it just fine. They don't go right into the triangular recess, sure, but the flat part above that is more than capable of holding them square enough to sharpen. I believe the triangular recess is just for holding plane blades. It's possible to move them if you really try, but if you're putting that much force on them while sharpening you're a) doing it wrong and b) likely to injure yourself, and chisels have the potential to make some really nasty holes in people.

I marginally prefer the Stanley guide for some of my chisels (some don't fit so well in it because of the way the base plate is indented), because it has two wheels rather than just one and therefore tips over sideways less often. But that's a user-error problem anyway. ;-)




Bear in mind that as much as people may go on about how perfectly square your chisel has to be ground and how important it is to get a precise angle and microbevel, it doesn't really matter if you sharpen your chisel with a half-degree skew on the end so long as it's the same half-degree skew each time. It doesn't even matter that much whether you can shave in the reflection off the back (or face, or whichever side that is), so long as the edge itself is sharp.

The chisels that came with the honing guide are 3/8 to 1". None of them fit square into the tringular slots in the side of the guide. the wide top section is only for plane blades..

I am considering one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310789626087? ... EBIDX%3AIT
as a last resort.

 

[sunnybob]

I have tried so hard to make this hobby work over the last 10 months. i just can not believe how truly awful every wood working tool is when its sold.
I bought a bandsaw that has a hundred faults. i bought a belt sander that was wired back to front from the factory and has already got noisy bearings (less than a dozen hours usage). I have a chisel sharpener that doesnt sharpen chisels made by the same manufacturer (the same manufacturer who sells sharpening stones that arent as wide as the plane blades your supposed to use it on.). A plane that will not cut square, even a router cutter that is not straight, and on ad infinitum.

If something doesnt go right soon, me and wood will be parting company.

I feel your pain. It's always seemed strange to me that so many woodworkers accept that everything they buy will need modification or alteration before using it.
There's no way we'd accept that with cars for instance.

Having said that it's definitely true that if you buy cheap modern tools you're almost always going to be disappointed.
There are companies making tools that are of a good quality but generally they ain't cheap.
The adage of getting what you pay for probably applies more to tools than anything else, especially important if you make your living from them.

Although they are eye wateringly expensive Lie Nielsen planes are universally well thought of. Quangsheng are a cheaper brand that seem to receive good reviews here. Same with Pax or Flinn handsaws, Narex Chisel.

Don't give up the fight though - that would be a great shame.

I'm a pensioner, and even though I live in Cyprus, have to justify my expenditure. I've already put in well over £1,500 into this hobby, and have nothing that I'm prepared to show to any one. let alone people here.
Top quality is way beyond my hobby budget, and there doesnt seem to be a middle ground.
The end of the year will be decision time I think.

 

[Alf Beharie]

Trend make something called a Varijig Clamp Guide that sounds like just what you need. You can get them in different lengths...I have the 50" version which is long enough to allow perfectly square cuts to be made across 8' x 4' boards and they do a 100" version which is long enough to allow perfectly square cuts to be made along 8' x 4' boards. Then you just need a circular plunge saw and your in business!

 

[custard]

I have tried so hard to make this hobby work over the last 10 months. i just can not believe how truly awful every wood working tool is when its sold.
I bought a bandsaw that has a hundred faults. i bought a belt sander that was wired back to front from the factory and has already got noisy bearings (less than a dozen hours usage). I have a chisel sharpener that doesnt sharpen chisels made by the same manufacturer (the same manufacturer who sells sharpening stones that arent as wide as the plane blades your supposed to use it on.). A plane that will not cut square, even a router cutter that is not straight, and on ad infinitum.

If something doesnt go right soon, me and wood will be parting company.

I've followed your posts over the past few months Bob and maybe you should pack it in.

Woodworking isn't for everyone, because you're working with a natural material like wood you need endless patience and a very high resistance to frustration. I don't get the impression that's really your style.

If you've found the experience unrewarding this far there's little point in punishing yourself further. Things aren't going to get any easier. Wait until you start chopping mortices or cutting dovetails, then there's endless worthless trinkets and gew-gaws to waste your money on, all of which will let you down badly!

You gave it a decent shot over ten months and it's not worked out the way you'd hoped, so cut bait and move on is what I say.

 

[James-1986]

It looks like the blade has slipped out of the groove in the roller and was running on the side of it, has happened to me in the past when cutting a plywood panel for a front door using a straight edge. Never again!

Sell your sharpening jig and learn to sharpen without one, it isn't hard.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I have tried so hard to make this hobby work over the last 10 months. i just can not believe how truly awful every wood working tool is when its sold.
I bought a bandsaw that has a hundred faults. i bought a belt sander that was wired back to front from the factory and has already got noisy bearings (less than a dozen hours usage). I have a chisel sharpener that doesnt sharpen chisels made by the same manufacturer (the same manufacturer who sells sharpening stones that arent as wide as the plane blades your supposed to use it on.). A plane that will not cut square, even a router cutter that is not straight, and on ad infinitum.

If something doesnt go right soon, me and wood will be parting company.

A couple of observations:

10 months isn't very long to develop the necessary skills to produce good quality outcomes in wood. Employing a musical analogy: you probably wouldn't give up piano after such a short time learning and yet working with wood is infinitely more complex. Just think of the variety of wood types, soft, hard, grain, knots, moisture content, natural, sheet goods. Layer on the tools....literally too numerous to mention and that's just hand tools. How long does a chippys apprenticeship last and that's with expert tuition daily? So, my message is change your expectation and lower the bar...set your goals on simpler projects and master the basics first.

The other thing that stands out is that tools do 9 times out of 10 need a modicum of fettling and that seems to frustrate you. Again, your expectation needs to be adjusted so when your mind meets tool meets material there is a degree of harmony and peace or you'll always be fighting with the project. The good news is there is a lot of free information and instruction online including this forum that offer tailor made guidance. The resources are there so I would be inclined to refocus your efforts on simpler work, using basic tools with the goal of accomplishing mastery of the basic principles of cutting, planing and joining. No need to give up, you just need an injection of enthusiasm. A great way to get that would be would be to collaborate on a project with someone experienced.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"working with wood is infinitely more complex."

I think a few people here will take issue with that one.
The rest of the post is sound, though. I wonder if the op can get together with someone else? It's often simple to see errors being made by someone else of the same ability when you don't realise you're making them yourself.