another thought , on the subject of cheap planes

[big soft moose]

I thought i'd put this in a seperate thread rather than drag my otherone even further off topic.


I understand from the reviews of the axi 7 that the sole is tolerably flat ( which makes a change from ther axi 4 we have at work which is over 3mm out) but the blade is reputed to be total rubbish which wont hold an edge

So I was thinking, as one should now and then, whether there is any mileage in buying the cheap axminster no.7 and binning the blade and replacing it with a decent one like the japanese laminated one axminster also sell ( this is for my own use and not connected to the QS no.6 purchase for work)

total expenditure if it works would only be about 70 notes , and if it fails i could bin the plane and keep the blade for another application and only be 30 odd notes out of pocket, which might be worth a punt.

 

[woodsworth]

I've been thinking about the same thing. Some of us don't have £300 for a plane. I've looked and looked at these things and can't see enough difference between makers to justify spending so much, other then to look good when posting...

As long as it holds the blade at the right angle, you put a good blade in it, surely it will do the same job as a £300 planer, no?

What does it take to flatten one any how if it is a bit out? I think the main worry is how stable the steel is over the long haul, wouldn't it be? Surely all steel has movement, but how much.

 

[Mr Ed]

surely it will do the same job as a £300 planer, no?

Theres lots of evidence that people have taken old Stanleys and Records and got them performing brilliantly (David C included). I think its probably a lower investment of cash versus a higher investment of time. Theres also emerging evidence that some newer budget brands can perform well, such as the Quangsheng stuff.

That said, the performance achieved from the 3 premium plane manufacturers is in my experience streets ahead of most cheaper planes. For me, using my first L-N plane and realising how these things were meant to feel when working properly was one of my woodworking revelations that will stay with me. Sure we can't all afford the big 3, in which case there are entirely proper, cheaper alternatives, but if the money is there then the 3 premium manufacturers are offering a product that will change your woodworking.

Ed

 

[bugbear]

I've been thinking about the same thing. Some of us don't have £300 for a plane. I've looked and looked at these things and can't see enough difference between makers to justify spending so much, other then to look good when posting...

As long as it holds the blade at the right angle, you put a good blade in it, surely it will do the same job as a £300 planer, no?

"plane".

Anyway - what about flat sole, comfortable handle, frog secure on sole, lash free adjustment, flat face on frog for blade bedding, smooth action of cam-lock on the lever cap...

I mean, hell, these can (nearly) all be tweaked in the workshop, and making a tool work to its utmost can be very satisfying.

But then, sufficient work and care will turn some brass sheet, ground stock and some small pieces of hardwood into an infill!

BugBear

 

[Alf]

If you're going to go down the new-iron-in-cheap-plane route, do yourself a big favour and start with an older Stanley or Record. With the Groz/Anant variety of plane you're starting at a point of disadvantage compared to a plane from the first half of the 20thC. Putting aside the higher standards of manufacture, the grey iron in the new planes will very likely still be green and thus move plenty (so if you put any effort at all into flattening the sole, you can watch with delight as all your work goes to pot again). A 70 yr old plane has done all the moving it's ever gonna. :wink:

To be honest if holding the iron at the right angle is your only consideration - i.e. you don't want any mechanical adjustment - then save yourself a truly enormous heap of cash and buy an old woodie. Unless you buy really foolishly you won't even need to replace the iron and the sole'll be a lot easier to true.

 

[big soft moose]

If you're going to go down the new-iron-in-cheap-plane route, do yourself a big favour and start with an older Stanley or Record. .

actually that leads me to another question - I am picking up a bunch of old planes without blades principally 4s and 5s (from roy) tommorow. How do i determine what width blade is needed ? is it just a question of measuring the mouth or is there a set blade with for each number ?

 

[wizer]

Speak to Ron Hock

 

[big soft moose]

Speak to Ron Hock

assuming i dont want to spend the national debt of a small latin amerciacan countryon blades tho...

i was thinking of these from mathew but how do i figure out which width i need ?

 

[mr grimsdale]

I wouldn't buy an old plane without a blade. It ends up being more expensive than the plane itself. An old steel 5 1/2 without a blade is only worth a tenner or so. If the cap iron and lever cap are also missing it's just scrap.
Why no blades anyway? Seems a bit odd.

 

[woodbloke]

I wouldn't buy an old plane without a blade. It ends up being more expensive than the plane itself. An old steel 5 1/2 without a blade is only worth a tenner or so. If the cap iron and lever cap are also missing it's just scrap.
Why no blades anyway? Seems a bit odd.

Depends where you go. My local second hand tool emporium has a box full of assorted cutters, cap irons and frogs, so it's usually possible to find something that'll fit - Rob

 

[Mike Wingate]

When I went to college with my Record no.5 1/2 and 6. We spent the first couple of sessions fettling our tools. Scraping the soles flat. Filing and abrading the sides at 90 degrees to the sole. And they were good planes, still in need of attention.

 

[Smudger]

If you're going to go down the new-iron-in-cheap-plane route, do yourself a big favour and start with an older Stanley or Record. .

actually that leads me to another question - I am picking up a bunch of old planes without blades principally 4s and 5s (from roy) tommorow. How do i determine what width blade is needed ? is it just a question of measuring the mouth or is there a set blade with for each number ?

Yes, set sizes.
Record:
03 = 1¾"
04 = 2"
04½ = 2 ¼"(early) 2⅜" (late)
05 = 2"
05½ = 2⅜"
06, 07, 08 = 2⅜"
T5 = 2"

Pretty certain Stanley is the same, but I just happened to have 'Planecraft' in my hand when I saw your post!

 

[jimi43]

I spend a lot of time oggling the LNs and the LV and Cliftons and I am absolutely certain I will have an awakening one day....but that being said, the old planes particularly the RECORDs have been the next step up for me.

I have considered the blades quite a bit and trying to slowly get my head around the steel and this forum has been a fascinating oracle in that respect.

I too am drawn to Ron Hock blades...and the larger chip breaker...

Jim

 

[Alf]

Yes, set sizes.
Record:
03 = 1¾"
04 = 2"
04½ = 2 ¼"(early) 2⅜" (late)
05 = 2"
05½ = 2⅜"
06, 07, 08 = 2⅜"
T5 = 2"

Pretty certain Stanley is the same, but I just happened to have 'Planecraft' in my hand when I saw your post!

04½ was always 2⅜" wasn't it? But the 05½ changed from 2 ¼" to 2⅜", in line with Stanley. And the 8 is 2 5/8". All the same as Stanley, as far as I recall.

 

[chill]

I have 2 stanley 5.5`s .....1 is 2 1/4 the other later 1 is 2 3/8, both are 80 - 90 years old approx. Ron Hock or Ray Iles should be able to supply
blades for these

 

[lurker]

..and the larger chip breaker...

Jim

Jim,

try a Clifton two piece its a cheap upgrade & you may be surprised how nice they are.

Mathew has them but they are a tad cheaper from Axy

 

[big soft moose]

I wouldn't buy an old plane without a blade. It ends up being more expensive than the plane itself. An old steel 5 1/2 without a blade is only worth a tenner or so. If the cap iron and lever cap are also missing it's just scrap.
Why no blades anyway? Seems a bit odd.

Its off an established member on here (digit) so i'm happy that there is nothing odd about it - he's keeping the blades for future projects (presumably making planes of some description), and i'm getting 4 or 5 planes for 20 notes and a few bits of wood (and i got the latter free) so i'm quite content with the deal.

on top of the ones from roy i also need to reblade my grandads old stanley 4, record 5, and long woody (roughly the same as a 6)

 

[mr grimsdale]

I wouldn't buy an old plane without a blade. It ends up being more expensive than the plane itself. An old steel 5 1/2 without a blade is only worth a tenner or so. If the cap iron and lever cap are also missing it's just scrap.
Why no blades anyway? Seems a bit odd.

Its off an established member on here (digit) so i'm happy that there is nothing odd about it - he's keeping the blades for future projects (presumably making planes of some description), and i'm getting 4 or 5 planes for 20 notes and a few bits of wood (and i got the latter free) so i'm quite content with the deal.

on top of the ones from roy i also need to reblade my grandads old stanley 4, record 5, and long woody (roughly the same as a 6)

That sounds OK then!
Cheapest way to get a new blade for a woody is to buy a woody on ebay. They go for next to nothing (99p, £2.50, my recent purchases) and you can at least see that there is some blade left, from the photo, though it may be pitted of course.

 

[David C]

BSM

I would be careful. Clifton blades are often (but not always) too thick to go into Stanleys and Records.

The Yoke peg may not be long enough to go through these thick blades and engage the cap iron or chipbreaker.

This is why Hock and L-N produce blades at 2.4mm thick. Ray Iles has similar. The Axminster Japanese blades are very good but thinner.

David Charlesworth

 

[jimi43]

BSM

I would be careful. Clifton blades are often (but not always) too thick to go into Stanleys and Records.

The Yoke peg may not be long enough to go through these thick blades and engage the cap iron or chipbreaker.

This is why Hock and L-N produce blades at 2.4mm thick. Ray Iles has similar. The Axminster Japanese blades are very good but thinner.

David Charlesworth

This is an important consideration David...and I have seen comments before where others have purchased an upgrade only to find it doesn't fit.

I seem to remember that Hock have a statement on their website that they either do or don't fit Records/Stanleys/Baileys....I will have to go check again.

Jim