Another Cycling Question

[mr]

It's the bell of a very long horn and I'd like the motorbike please.

Cheers Mike

 

[Saintsman]

Yup, looks like an alpenhorn to me.

The Manx Norton has me drooling over my lunchtime sandwich.

By the way, we recently holidayed near Interlaken, and I agree that the Swiss set up for cyclists (and, indeed, the attitude towards them) is way in advance of ours.

Paul

 

[ike]

(you've only got to look at the amount of fat people around these days )

Oh my God! - you can't say THAT!! [-X It's so...so..well, 'non PC'. Who can come up with an alternative to 'fat'. :-k How about 'laterally challenged' (oh that means thin doesn't it?)

Ike

 

[Saintsman]

'Nutritionally indulgent' ?

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

(you've only got to look at the amount of fat people around these days )

Oh my God! - you can't say THAT!! [-X It's so...so..well, 'non PC'. Who can come up with an alternative to 'fat'. :-k How about 'laterally challenged' (oh that means thin doesn't it?)

Ike

It is an alpenhorn...the longest playable horn in the world at 40' long :shock:

Oops...hope I haven't got myself into trouble here ...how about obese or rotundical? - Rob

 

[Woodmagnet]

Inconsiderate shopping trolley pushers are worse than anybody,
THEY are dangerous. :wink:

 

[Harbo]

Going back to Rob's original questions I think cycling is taken very seriously in this Country and if you inquire you will probably find that your Local Authority will have a "Cycling Policy" and be looking at ways of creating safe cycle routes within its boundaries.
The problem in this country (apart from funding) is that we live in a very congested environment and you will find, in most cases, that most desired and proposed cycle routes are incomplete generally due to lack of space.
How many frontagers are willing to give up their front gardens for a road widening or new cycle path?
It has always been policy to segregate highway users from each other (as far as possible) and where separate cycle lanes cannot be created, combined footway/cycle lanes are created. The demand for cycle lanes is so great that sometimes stupid solutions are created with narrow lanes being provided by white lines at the side of the carriageway.
You are not allowed to cycle on a pavement unless there is a sign to say that cycling is permitted.
Lots of cycling initiatives have been set up including "Safe Routes to Schools" and "Sustrans" and lots of others encouriging safe cycling.

Rod

 

[MrJay]

Wonder if anyone can tell me the logic/reason for those brown boxes that span the entire road width at some traffic lights. The ones with a cycle in.

They're so cyclists can turn right at a junction, not so they all line up abreast. Normally cyclists inhabit the left curb which isn't a good place to turn right from.

 

[woodbloke]

Going back to Rob's original questions I think cycling is taken very seriously in this Country and if you inquire you will probably find that your Local Authority will have a "Cycling Policy" and be looking at ways of creating safe cycle routes within its boundaries.
The problem in this country (apart from funding) is that we live in a very congested environment and you will find, in most cases, that most desired and proposed cycle routes are incomplete generally due to lack of space.
How many frontagers are willing to give up their front gardens for a road widening or new cycle path?
It has always been policy to segregate highway users from each other (as far as possible) and where separate cycle lanes cannot be created, combined footway/cycle lanes are created. The demand for cycle lanes is so great that sometimes stupid solutions are created with narrow lanes being provided by white lines at the side of the carriageway.
You are not allowed to cycle on a pavement unless there is a sign to say that cycling is permitted.
Lots of cycling initiatives have been set up including "Safe Routes to Schools" and "Sustrans" and lots of others encouriging safe cycling.

Rod

Rod - I find this interesting as the opposite policy 'appears' to work in Switzerland, ie one of integration. In the pic below of a main intersection in Lucerne, there is a cycle path running through the middle of the junction and carriageway, roughly where the cars are in the pic foreground as well as cycle lanes on each side of the road (where feasable):

...and in the middle distance you can see a cyclist in a cycle lane in the middle of the road - Rob

 

[RogerS]

Wonder if anyone can tell me the logic/reason for those brown boxes that span the entire road width at some traffic lights. The ones with a cycle in.

They're so cyclists can turn right at a junction, not so they all line up abreast. Normally cyclists inhabit the left curb which isn't a good place to turn right from.

Ah...makes sense. Thanks for that. Another one of lifes' little conundrums solved :wink:

 

[Harbo]

Yes Rob - I should have followed "it has always been policy" with the latest thinking is that you should abandon all road markings, kerbs, signs etc etc. and let everybody sort themselves out. The theory is that motorists are so confused that they will drive slowly?
It as been trialed in a few locations and seems to work? (Urban areas only so far!)

The bit about the box is correct, but not always used and generally the colour used is red (but no specific colour is laid down in the signs manual - some areas use green - brown might be faded red?

I used to cross a signalled junction with a left and a straight-on only movement. Cyclists, that you had previously overtaken, used to creep in front of the straight-on queue and then set off very slowly uphill with all the cars behind. Slightly frustrating but within their rights!

Rod

 

[Smudger]

I was making a right turn across a level crossing this evening when a motorcyclist tried to overtake me on my left as I was doing it...

When he realised that he couldn't make it he swapped sides and overtook me on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic.

Moral dilemma - how hard do I work to keep cretins like that safe?

 

[RogerS]

Rod - I find this interesting as the opposite policy 'appears' to work in Switzerland, ie one of integration.
Rob

Ah..but Rob..in your picture there is something missing compared to the UK. Nose-to-tail cars :wink:

 

[ike]

I was making a right turn across a level crossing this evening when a motorcyclist tried to overtake me on my left as I was doing it...

When he realised that he couldn't make it he swapped sides and overtook me on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic.

Moral dilemma - how hard do I work to keep cretins like that safe?

That's roughly 75 of my 100 'close shaves' a year - except they're cars doing it, hence my earlier rant. I have to be very defensive, very careful and assume that ALL drivers are moronic b******ds, otherwise I wouldn't be sat here writing this. I'd be very dead :shock:

Ike

 

[promhandicam]

Interesting topic. Having cycled a lot in the UK and Europe in the past, although not so much in recent years, my observation would be that in Europe in general there are more 'ordinary cyclists' than in the UK. What do I mean ordinary? Well a lot of families / middle aged people / older people on 'sit up and beg' type bikes who use their bikes to go down to the town or to take the kids to school. Yes there are cycle couriers and others for whom speed is of an essence and rules are there to be broken but they seem to be definitely in the minority. In Robs last pic, how many bikes are there? A lot more than you'd see parked up in most british town centres I guess. As for cycling on pavements or even so called 'cycle lanes' which are nothing more than a few painted lines - in the UK, personally I will always take my chances on the roads. On the continent however some of the cycle paths are as wide and better surfaced than the roads so there it is a no brainer.

All the best, Steve

 

[woodbloke]

Promhandicam wrote -

how many bikes are there? A lot more than you'd see parked up in most british town centres I guess

Steve - further up into the town there were spaces allocated for parking bikes that might be say, the size of half a tennis court...and they were all full :shock: - Rob

 

[andrewm]

In the UK cycling on the footpath is illegal and you could be fined £500 but its one of those laws that are seldom enforced. Also not allowed on public footpaths but bridalways are OK.
Jason

I think you will find that cycling on a footpath that does not run parallel to a road (a pavement) is actually legal unless signs indicate otherwise.

Bikes belong on the roads.

Here, here. The problem is that a lot of councils think that putting up a blue and white sign suddenly makes pavement cycling safe. It doesn’t. But in doing so they are reinforcing the view among less experienced cyclists that the road is dangerous and reinforcing the view amongst drivers that the road is for cars and the bikes should be somewhere else.

And don't get me started on bikes who ignore red lights or oneway streets.

I’m not one to condone jumping red light but don’t get me started on drivers who park in cycle lanes

Did you see the news the other day - a guy was killed by a cyclist on the pavement outside of his house. 'Reckless riding' and he'll get a fine of about ninepence.
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/h ... _death.php

Actually, as the article makes out he is facing jail. But what is significant about this and why it got the press attention is that it is so rare. As far as I am aware this is the first death caused by a cyclist on a pavement for at least three years. There are far more pedestrians on pavements killed by car drivers every year. So many that they might get a mention in the local rag but don’t usually make it to onto national news.

Going back to Rob's original questions I think cycling is taken very seriously in this Country and if you inquire you will probably find that your Local Authority will have a "Cycling Policy" and be looking at ways of creating safe cycle routes within its boundaries

They will indeed have a cycling policy but will be looking for ways of ticking all the boxes and being able to proudly proclaim that they have created x miles of cycle facilities. This will be done for the smallest amount of taxpayers money and usually consists of painting white lines on the road or putting signs on the pavement. Often these are worse than useless and often they are told that by local cyclists but the schemes go ahead. Some the worst examples can be found here (although ironically this month’s is in France, not far from the Swiss border) but there are plenty of others. I can think of at least two places where I cycle regularly where a cycle lane puts the cyclist in direct danger of being knocked of their bike by someone opening a car door. The highway code gives specific advice to cyclists about riding next to parked carts and advises that the cyclist should leave enough room for a door to be opened. But that means riding outside of the lane and leaves them open to abuse from drivers because they should ‘use the f***ing cycle lane’

The Department of Transport has issued guidelines about the implementation of cycle facilities but I can’t of the top of my head think of any that even meet the minimum requirements. Cycle facilities in this country are a joke and we would be better off without them.

Andrew

 

[RogerS]

Does it say something about the pace of life in Switzerland compared to over here? That the pace is more leisurely and people aren't always in a desperate hurry to get from A to B ?

But then again perhaps that's overly simplistic as I remember that the pace of life in Indian cities seemed just as hectic as in the UK, the roads are crowded to overflowing with bikes, rickshaws and tuk tuks but very few cars. It looks like mayhem but then everyone makes way and accomodates everyone else.

Perhaps it is just a reflection of the 'me ..me..me' society that seems to purvey most of what I see around me in the UK.

 

[woodbloke]

Does it say something about the pace of life in Switzerland compared to over here? That the pace is more leisurely and people aren't always in a desperate hurry to get from A to B ?

But then again perhaps that's overly simplistic as I remember that the pace of life in Indian cities seemed just as hectic as in the UK, the roads are crowded to overflowing with bikes, rickshaws and tuk tuks but very few cars. It looks like mayhem but then everyone makes way and accomodates everyone else.

Perhaps it is just a reflection of the 'me ..me..me' society that seems to purvey most of what I see around me in the UK.

Rog - The pace of life in Switzerland, from my very limited experience, is little different to the UK, but there is far less traffic, driving on their excellent motorways is on a par with the UK (not the M25 tho' :wink... I feel you may have a point tho' with your last comment - Rob

 

[andrewm]

Rog - The pace of life in Switzerland, from my very limited experience, is little different to the UK, but there is far less traffic

Is this perhaps due to their exemplary railway system?

Andrew