Another Cycling Question

[woodbloke]

After our recent trip to Switzerland, I was surprised to see that the Swiss take cycling far more seriously that we appear to here in the UK. In a couple of cities we visited, there was a far better system of cycle paths on almost all roads within the cities (Lucerne and Lausanne), most roads had either one or both carriage ways with a cycle path and there were even cycle paths with their own traffic lights! The Swiss also seemed to have a much more tolerant attitude to cyclists in general and particularly to riding on the pavement (where practical) when there were no cycle paths.
So the question is, what does the forum think about cyclists in the UK riding on the pavement? Our roads carry far more traffic than our continental brethren so it should be safer on the pavement. I would like to cycle on the roads but feel sometimes it's a life threatening experience in the UK...far less so abroad. Also, what's the legal position in the UK or do the police tend to turn a blind eye? Interested to hear the forums views - Rob

 

[jasonB]

In the UK cycling on the footpath is illegal and you could be fined £500 but its one of those laws that are seldom enforced. Also not allowed on public footpaths but bridalways are OK.

Careless cycling carries a £1000 fine and dangerous cycling £2500.

Jason

 

[RogerS]

In a word...No thank you.

Bikes belong on the roads. I've been nearly run over too many times to count by inconsiderate cyclists who seem to think that the pavement is their right of way.

And don't get me started on bikes who ignore red lights or oneway streets.

 

[PowerTool]

In a word...No thank you.

Bikes belong on the roads. I've been nearly run over too many times to count by inconsiderate cyclists who seem to think that the pavement is their right of way.

And don't get me started on bikes who ignore red lights or oneway streets.

I agree completely.Unfortunately,Rob,this may be another case of "all being tarred with the same brush" but the majority of cyclists I see fall into the above category.
Also,being on a bike does not exempt people from using lights when it is dark :evil:

Andrew

 

[WellsWood]

And don't get me started on bikes who ignore red lights or oneway streets.

Abso -bl**dy-lutely!! =D> =D> =D>

 

[Smudger]

Did you see the news the other day - a guy was killed by a cyclist on the pavement outside of his house. 'Reckless riding' and he'll get a fine of about ninepence.
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/h ... _death.php

A colleague of mine was run down on the pavement as she came out of her house and spent weeks in hospital, ended up with a permanently damaged back. The cyclist? He rode off.

Makes my blood boil.

 

[bobscarle]

I agree with your sentiments entirely, bikes belong on the road.

I am a cyclist who does stop at red lights. I do not ride on the pavement and I use lights when it is dark. By all means have a go at cyclists, we are not perfect! But then take a look at motorists :evil: .

Car drivers in particular treat cyclists as an irritation. We are only on the road to get in their way. I loose count at the number of times I have been cut up by some half asleep motorist overtaking then turning left whilst still alongside me. And the number of drivers who seem to think that a bike needs about 6" of room between it and the gutter. Only a couple of weeks ago I was squeezed by a lorry that overtook me and then moved back in before he had properly passed. I was sent sprawling onto a grass verge. The people in the line of cars that were following had a good gawp but not one stopped to see if I was OK.

There are lots of accidents involving bikes, but it is normally the rider who comes off worse. Take a look http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/6716199.stm. A car driver kills 4 cyclists. His car has defective tyres. The driver was fined £180, £45 for each life he took.....

Yes, have a go at cyclists if you will. Some deserve it. Some do not! Bikes belong on the road. Oh, and before you ask, I do have a car and, yes, I do pay road tax.

Bob (just getting off his soap box)

 

[MrJay]

I'm a crazy bicyclist person also (hray, us \o/). Pavements are for pedestrians; even ones with big bicycle pictures on. That some folk feel intimidated by bicycles when walking on paths strikes me as more than enough of reason not to do it (that and I do like to go at 25mph, and it's just not safe with all the grannys and small children getting in my way). If more people cycle on the roads then the safer it'll be. I reckon most of the car/bike hiccups stem from a lack of familiarity. Dressing up in high visibility accessories so you look like a mobile road works is surprisingly effective at getting motor vehicles and their drivers to give you sufficient space and otherwise cohabit nicely with you.

Roads strike me as pretty unpleasant places regardless of whether your driving/cycling/walking/sitting on a bus. Too much traffic either going too fast or making endless queues.

I gave up car ownership and no longer pay vehicle excise duty; which doesn't strike me as a problem, seeing as the road fund was scrapped in the 30's and roads are now financed out of general taxation. I'm sure you lot weren't about to jump on a bandwagon, but I'm not entirely convinced that motorists as a group are in much of a position to point the finger at bicyclists when it comes to social nuisance and mishap; that's not to say that inconsiderate cycling doesn't warrant criticism; but a bandwagon's not a credible place from which to do it.

 

[RogerS]

Wonder if anyone can tell me the logic/reason for those brown boxes that span the entire road width at some traffic lights. The ones with a cycle in.

Logic suggests that it is a space for cyclists to wait while the lights change.

Commonsense suggests that that is lunacy and/or takes very brave cyclists to straddle the road width (maybe 6 cyclists alongside each other?) in front of the rest of the traffic. Guaranteed to encourage goodwill between all road users.

Whatever. I agree with all the comments re encouraging cyclists/giving them more room etc but this little idea strikes me as just plain stupid.

Or maybe it's a feeble attempt to make us drive slower?

 

[ike]

Some of you lot sound like reactionary old farts, spluttering over your G&T from the comfort of your wingchairs! I bet most who slag off cyclists haven't had their leg over a bike since they were in short trousers. I cycle on average 1500 miles a year, and I witness the crass stupidity, selfishness and frankly, simple denial of motorists at least twice a week. That's 100 times a year THEY put MY LIFE at risk from the comfort of their tin boxes!! :evil:

Ike

 

[White House Workshop]

The V11 I have in my hand says 'BICYCLE' under vehicle description. You can bet your bottom dollar I would get fines if a cop saw me stop my motorbike in one of those brown boxes! Would he do anything about a cyclist going through a red light though? Never... That's the problem, the law isn't enforced. Motorists are plagued daily by speed traps and cameras, parking attendants, tow-trucks, bus lane restrictions etc etc and cyclists break every law in the book but are never prosecuted. They are not obliged to carry insurance for the damage they cause to cars, either - the big scratch down my wife's car being a case in point (it was parked, before you ask).

I guess the cyclist who actually killed that poor guy in Wiltshire is being prosecuted but he'll probably get off with a suspended sentence or community service. What price a life?

 

[RogerS]

Ike

I don't think that we're 'going off on one' and actually advocating hanging cyclists from their handlebars. The posts all seem to argue (quite reasonably) that bikes belong on roads and not on pavements and that thereare inconsiderate cyclists just as much as their are inconsiderate motorists.

Roger

 

[mr]

As a pedestrian Ive been hit twice by cyclists on pavements and my wife has been hit once as well. Bicycles being vehicles belong on the road I think. I've also seen a courier riding a motorcycle down a pavement to get around traffic, there's no difference that I can see.
Cheers Mike

 

[ike]

Roger wrote:

and that thereare inconsiderate cyclists just as much as their are inconsiderate motorists.

That highlighted is what winds me up. There are vastly more inconsiderate drivers than there are inconsiderate cyclists. If you want to generalise about cyclists, let's not blow it out of proportion. Someone complains about one incident with a cyclist and they label all of us the same. What utter b*****ks!.

I get 2 incidents a WEEK with motorists! THAT's what makes MY blood boil.

Ike

 

[RogerS]

Roger wrote:

and that thereare inconsiderate cyclists just as much as their are inconsiderate motorists.

That highlighted is what winds me up.

Ike

Are you saying that there are no incosiderate cyclists then? To say thereare none is incorrect.

I said 'just as much' not 'just as many'.

 

[ike]

Are you saying that there are no incosiderate cyclists then? To say thereare none is incorrect.

Nowhere have I said that.

I said 'just as much' not 'just as many'.

Fair do's - I should have read it properly

cheers,

Ike

 

[Saintsman]

Speaking as a cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver, I'm mostly with Ike on this.

Of course there are inconsiderate cyclists just as there are inconsiderate drivers. Difference is, one inconsiderate cyclist = one irritated driver, whilst one inconsiderate driver = one dead rider.

I appreciate that there are exceptions, and I have seen plenty of moronic riding by cyclists and bikers, but this is hugely exceeded by the occasions where I have witnessed homicidal driving towards me or my friends whilst on two wheels.
Most heard comment: (even when I'm lit up like Blackpool illuminations )'Sorry mate, I didn't see you' No ? Try LOOKING !

OK, rant over, but it's a sore and heartfelt point !

Paul

 

[AndyT]

I'm not surprised this one has provoked a lot of response. There are a lot of selfish people around, in cars, on bikes and on foot. When we are in shared public space, selfishness shows.

I do think we should all make an effort to stop abuse of pavements. If a cyclist decides not to use the road (eg because it's blocked, or they judge it too dangerous) and they want to use the pavement, then they ought to get off and walk. That way they move at the same speed as the other pedestrians - including the elderly, the very young and the not very agile, who have nowhere else to go.

 

[woodbloke]

Lots of great responses, many thanks. Reading my original OP I think that I phased the question rather badly when I said that:

"what does the forum think about cyclists in the UK riding on the pavement? Our roads carry far more traffic than our continental brethren so it should be safer on the pavement. I would like to cycle on the roads but feel sometimes it's a life threatening experience in the UK...far less so abroad".

I too cycle on the roads, wear full hi-viz clothing (never saw anyone with daeglo gear at all) helmet and always stop for red lights and again have almost been hit by high speed cyclists on the pavement when walking to work.
I think what I'm attempting to say (rather badly) is that I would like to see a much more tolerant attitude and encouragement for people to get on their bikes (you've only got to look at the amount of fat people around these days :wink especially in city centres or for commuting to work.
We gate-crashed a wine tasting in Laveaux and the lady with the long brown hair (extreme right of pic, white shoes) and I had a long conversation over several glasses of nice white Swiss vino:

...and one of the things that she said was that it's an entirely political decision taken by each city as to the amount of provision allocated for cyclists, so Lucerne would agree to have 150KM of cycle ways and somewhere else might have only 100Km. She also said that this had only happened in the last 10 years or so, so maybe the UK is way behind in this sort of thing...so apologies for a poorly phrased opening post.
To high-jack my own thread for a bit, any guesses as to what this is?

and how many bikers would fancy owning this:

....'cos it's brand new and never been ridden (Transport Museum, Lucerne) :lol: - Rob

 

[AndyT]

Rob,

Is it an alpenhorn?

Andy