American terms
- Thread starter Dangermouse
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GazPal
Established Member
I'd only ever called the rear plane handle a handle throughout my years woodworking and it's a tad late to begin naming them totes after such a period. The frequency of the word's use seems to be an americanism and internet chat forum thing, as I'd never heard anyone call a plane handle a tote in the real world. The same can be said of Le Schwarz pronunciation of spelch (It's SPELK!!!!!). 
Toat was handle, but tote is to carry (We also used to name open topped tool trays and tool bags totes), or used as another name for turf accountant.
Toat was handle, but tote is to carry (We also used to name open topped tool trays and tool bags totes), or used as another name for turf accountant.
Klaus Kretschmar
Established Member
A truly interesting discussion for an outsider like me. It reminds me on similar discussions we have here in Germany, where some people try to struggle with the "Anglizisms" (English influenced terms) in the German language. Perhaps we all should relax and consider, that the world is getting smaller with the www. The influence from the web to the languages is one side, the possibility to get close to people all over the world is another side. The second one might be more important. Just my 2 cents.
Klaus
Klaus
barkwindjammer
Established Member
+1 Klaus
Dangermouse
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Like Alf I think i've had enough of this forum. It seems to be decending into a bunch of back stabing know it all smug ******** and I can live quite well with out it.
Good bye all.
Good bye all.
barkwindjammer
Established Member
It's stabbing-acksherly
Dangermouse
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One last thing, barkwindjammer, how do you spell......**** Y O U !
barkwindjammer
Established Member
Emmm..... on here ? Pineapple
Max Power
Established Member
Bye :roll:
bobbybirds
Established Member
All this anger over words... It is pretty funny to me!
Being Canadian, we are somewhere in the middle of English and American words and spellings. I say tote, but that is just because what I first heard it called. I said rebate and one of my buddies said "it isn't England... Call it rabbet!", so now I purposely say rebate just because I know it irritates him. I spell it honour and colour, and not honor and color (even now as I am typing this, the computer calls what I consider the proper spelling an error and underlines it in red). I type realise and customise etc, but the computer wants it to have a z (zed not zee) instead of an s.
The list goes on and on... I have my preferences, but who really gives a "pineapple" in the grand scheme of things, and it definitely isn't anything anyone should ever get worked up about.
Being Canadian, we are somewhere in the middle of English and American words and spellings. I say tote, but that is just because what I first heard it called. I said rebate and one of my buddies said "it isn't England... Call it rabbet!", so now I purposely say rebate just because I know it irritates him. I spell it honour and colour, and not honor and color (even now as I am typing this, the computer calls what I consider the proper spelling an error and underlines it in red). I type realise and customise etc, but the computer wants it to have a z (zed not zee) instead of an s.
The list goes on and on... I have my preferences, but who really gives a "pineapple" in the grand scheme of things, and it definitely isn't anything anyone should ever get worked up about.
lanemaux
In Memorium
We Canuckians , eh Bobbybirds. Having a hard time getting my head around all the fuss about words. To tote or not to tote , hardly seems a question. As far as americanisms go , this one barely is a blip on the cultural radar. Far more damage is done by the young and the need to sound cooler than the rest. Then there are the very near to new languages of urban youth , gamers , 'puter nerds and so forth. As a Canuck I will just mosey on using whatever slang , venacular , lingo, you name it , that I run across. It's fun to learn a new language.
Vann
Established Member
Beats me :!: :?: :!:Noel":2506ghc9 said:
I was having a chuckle at what I thought was friendly banter.
Ahh well, back to the shed.... (I jest - I'm at work
)Cheers, Vann.
bugbear
Established Member
Checking some (English) references last night, I find the Glossary of Wood (a 1948 compilation of articles from the 1930's) I find tote defined as a plane handle.
Charles Hayward "Tools for Working Wood" (1946) labels a diagram with "toat or handle", and Salaman's magisterial "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools" (1975) does the same.
Adding this into the chain of Moxon and Holtzapfel, one can conclude that it's been an English piece of jargon for a very long time.
BugBear
Charles Hayward "Tools for Working Wood" (1946) labels a diagram with "toat or handle", and Salaman's magisterial "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools" (1975) does the same.
Adding this into the chain of Moxon and Holtzapfel, one can conclude that it's been an English piece of jargon for a very long time.
BugBear
GazPal
Established Member
bugbear":6llvd4px said:
I agree, but the term has not been in common use in this country for quite some time. Much the same as rabbet. Although I may have a few pair of flared trousers and flare collared shirts boxed in the loft, it doesn't mean I'm going to wear them anytime sooner or later. :lol:
One question I have is, "When did tote again become popularised as a means of naming plane handles?" Although I knew - through prior reading - it was a proper term, I've yet to hear anyone use it. This includes the older generations of cabinetmakers in my family (Including my great grandfather who apprenticed during the 1880's and remained active - pottering about - in our workshops until the late 1960's).
One thing that anybody with more than one book on woodworking soon realises is that their authors often draw 'quite heavily' on previous works, even if it introduces misinformation.
For example Moxon's illustrations were copied from Felebien's book, even though it meant that some of the written descriptions don't match the pictures. In the 20th century it's easy to see content from the weekly magazines being endlessly recycled into books.
So I'm quite willing to adopt the theory (without any further evidence) that successive authors mentioned the word 'tote' as an alternative to 'handle' just because previous authors had done so, even though the term was not in widespread spoken use.
It may then have come into wider use, as more people have had some of their initial instruction about woodwork from books.
For example Moxon's illustrations were copied from Felebien's book, even though it meant that some of the written descriptions don't match the pictures. In the 20th century it's easy to see content from the weekly magazines being endlessly recycled into books.
So I'm quite willing to adopt the theory (without any further evidence) that successive authors mentioned the word 'tote' as an alternative to 'handle' just because previous authors had done so, even though the term was not in widespread spoken use.
It may then have come into wider use, as more people have had some of their initial instruction about woodwork from books.
bugbear
Established Member
GazPal":3j09acvl said:
I think it's note worthy that Hayward and Salaman also list handle, presumably considered an acceptable term.
Further, the references can't agree on the spelling - which does imply a spoken tradition, more than a written one.
The evidence seems to point to a term that was used by craftsman, not just authors, but not very often (perhaps regional variations were also involved, as per other discussions).
BugBear
Hello,
In my experience, naming and terminology is on the verge of chaos in all traditional handcrafts, and all languages. Standardisation of terminology is a result of the appearance of scientific/educational literature. And that has happened quite lately, in the XIXth century.
Have a nice day,
János
In my experience, naming and terminology is on the verge of chaos in all traditional handcrafts, and all languages. Standardisation of terminology is a result of the appearance of scientific/educational literature. And that has happened quite lately, in the XIXth century.
Have a nice day,
János
