American power tools...

[Inspector]

Just to satisfy my curiosity I went into my shop for a look, and my tools are a mix of 2 and 3 prong. My Milwaukee 3/8 drill, screwdriver, and circular saw have 3 pin plugs on them. My old Makita 3hp plunge router and his little brother trim router, Porter Cable 890 router, Dewalt 625 router, Milwaukee 4 1/2 angle grinder, Stihl and Husqvarna electric chainsaws, 2 Hitachi orbital sanders, Fein sander, Lamello biscuit jointer, (and more tools I couldn't be bothered to check) all have 2 pin plugs on them. Stationary tools are 3 prong but I didn't look at them all to confirm.

A tool doesn't have to have a 3 prong if it is "double insulated" (whatever that means :?: ). Now if the American and Canadian governments think they are safe to sell, knowing full well that 110 volts will kill us, and the foreign (including European) manufacturers make/sell them and can sleep at night, then you shouldn't get your undies in too large a knot. On the other hand maybe we have Darwin at work in our shops and developed thicker skin making us harder to kill. :lol: :wink:

 

[Niki]

I have many hand held electric tools that I bought in Japan (100V) and all of them are with two knives molded plugs...I'm talking about Bosch, Makita, Hitachi and a few "Made in Chiwan".

All of them have a plastic case but, looking at some electric appliances and tools here (Poland) - like vacuum cleaners, jig saws, routers, sanders, drills, angle grinders etc - they have also only 2 pins molded plugs and they are operated on 230V (I think that UK also changed to the standard EU 230V)

Taking into account that in most of the new houses, we have this "leak detector" (or what ever it's called) that shuts-down all the electric power in case I touch it (and I tested it actually with the back side of my fingers) I think that I am safe...

As I remember (because it popped a few times), even when they built my house, the used electricity from a special electric box (that was installed by the electric company only for the purpose of using tools and later was removed), this "leak detector" was installed in the box.

If it's good for the Japanese and the EU - it's also good for me...so far so good

niki

 

[Jake]

Many (double insulated) tools in the UK have no earth wire, and a plastic earth prong (there just to open the shutters on the L+N).

 

[tnimble]

Many (double insulated) tools in the UK have no earth wire, and a plastic earth prong (there just to open the shutters on the L+N).

In fact all double isolated must have only two and equipment with any metal parts even a simple screw which are not shielded by both the insulation around the wires and a layer of isolating plastic may not be called double isolated, must have a grounded cord and every metal part must be connected to this ground.


@Niki, the leak detectors are the residual current devices / cirquit breakers. They shut off within a few milliseconds when there is a current mismatch between of more then a few tens milliamperes the life and neutral wire.

Without them if grabbing on to a faulty device the normal circuit breaker must shut off. This will only switch off after a few seconds up to minutes depending on the current, the higher the current the faster is goes. The funny thing of mussels is than if you would grab something the mussels in your hand contract and you're not able to open your hand again and let go. You're into the ride for as long as it takes for the cirquit breaker to go. That can mean that you'll be 'well done' if for instance a circuit braker is for 14 amps but due to your body resistance and the location you're standing only 10 amps flow.

That's why ts so important to have the ground pin to blow the fuse / breaker through the ground wire. And have those residual current devices to cover all other faults.

 

[Niki]

Hi Tnimble

I think that we mean something different. What I have is only one (for all the house) "residual current devices" or as I call it, "leak detector".

I call it like "leak detector" because, as the electricians told me that it will pop-out when it detects "leak" between the Phase and Ground or Neutral and Ground...not the "Ground" in the plug but the ground that is my body.

It has also a test button that should be pressed from time to time but, who have the time to reset all the electric clocks in the house.

As you can see in the pic it only one device that will trip-off all the 3 phases.

niki

 

[Grinding One]

O boy,well here I go again,Electricity not used up on a circuit goes back to the generateing station on the neutral...20 milliamps will kill you deader then a stone.I had a ground wire come off at a transmission pole and I went to hook it up...the boss says to me wear you high voltage gloves son.I said its only a ground wire and he said to me ,I wish I had a nickel for everytime I heard that.We got out the tester and sure enough the wire had 65 milliamps to ground...The reason we were there was because the homeowner said he was getting shocked every time he mowed the grass there.He thought it was a hot wire....I reconnected it and all was well after that.
We had safety meetings every week and were notified if anyone was hurt or killed on Electricity....A lot of people were being killed on neutrals ,getting between them ,wires down or tools breaking down...Yes I know double insulated is suppose to be good.But in my book having worked on lines and houses all electrical items need a good ground.You are betting the guy who made it was having a good day when you know thats not always true....Do you always have a good day?No mistakes? Really? Here we make people install a Ground rod at the entrance of the Electric Service.Thats for our protection.Inside We make sure you have a good ground to a water pipe or other grounding device,For your protection.In the country people have lightning protection on the peaks of their houses again hooked up to a driven ground...Do people still die? Yes they do! But you can protect yourself or hope somebody else will for you...ever here of surge protecters??Why do you think you need them?
Probably because we all know something can always go wrong.Ever had a tool cord get caught up in something and almost cause a disaster??
Well enough of my ranting I`m probably preaching to the choir...work safe keep your area clean and if nothing else you ever do check your grounds.The tools you think are safe are the ones that will kill you.

 

[Lee Brubaker]

I have a 1958 AMF DeWalt RAS with 1 hp motor which mounts a 9" blade.
The motor, depending on where I lived, has been switched back & forth between 120 & 220 volts. Under both voltages the same power cord with 2 prong plug is used.

Lee

 

[tnimble]

Hi Tnimble

I think that we mean something different. What I have is only one (for all the house) "residual current devices" or as I call it, "leak detector".

I call it like "leak detector" because, as the electricians told me that it will pop-out when it detects "leak" between the Phase and Ground or Neutral and Ground...not the "Ground" in the plug but the ground that is my body.

It has also a test button that should be pressed from time to time but, who have the time to reset all the electric clocks in the house.

As you can see in the pic it only one device that will trip-off all the 3 phases.

niki

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/01.jpg

We're talking about the same thing Niki. The thing in the above picture is a residual current device (RCD). It does the switching off thing as soon as a couple of tens millampere flow to ground. Beside the RCD you also have normal cirquit breakers or fuses, one, two or three for each cirquit. They switch off when a large short cirquit current flows to the ground pin when a fault occures.

Not havin this pin, or having a loose ground wire but having the RCD present will only give you a good but short shock. Having no RCD at all will give you a good fry.

As you state you have only one of the RCDs is at least in the Netherlands and Belgium (and probably most other EU countries) considered not a good thing. Older instalation only may have this situation.

Having only one RCD means either only one circuit is protected agains leaks. This was mostly the cirquit of the kitchen, bathroom and alike. Or it means that this one RCD is a high trip current type that protects all cirquits. This does not really protect against accidents. If the photo is of your circuit box, most probably only one circuit is protected.

With the current EU regulations all circuits must be behind a 30mA RCD or RCCB. Upto four circuits (three at installation time) may be connected to each RCD or RCCB. There must be at least two RCDs or RCCB present. Some countries have additional requirements, suchs as in Belgium were each main circuit box must have an additional high trip current RCD present in the feed line of the circuit box.

 

[Grinding One]

I have a 1958 AMF DeWalt RAS with 1 hp motor which mounts a 9" blade.
The motor, depending on where I lived, has been switched back & forth between 120 & 220 volts. Under both voltages the same power cord with 2 prong plug is used.

Lee

Your in Canada

I was talking about USA,we have an indepedant inspection company that grants approval of Electrical devices....UL label ,Underwriters Lab. if they don`t approve it well your on your own. Our sockets (Sockets all have 3 points of entry)They tell you not to cut off the third prong,or you void the warrenty.Seems a lot of people didn`t want to change their outlates from two to three.So off with its head,Companys went with a two prong double insulated tool to help .Now people were still getting the wrong plug into the wrong hole so they started to mould a bigger head on the cord so you could see the triangle design and hopefully get the right one into the right hole.,that did not work either so now they made the holes smaller on one side and bigger on the other side so you can not make a mistake.
Its all about insurance ,people still are getting killed because they change the safety devices put there to help out.
Do you feel luckey?

 

[Inspector]

I have a 1958 AMF DeWalt RAS with 1 hp motor which mounts a 9" blade.
The motor, depending on where I lived, has been switched back & forth between 120 & 220 volts. Under both voltages the same power cord with 2 prong plug is used.

Lee

Your in Canada

I was talking about USA,we have an indepedant inspection company that grants approval of Electrical devices....UL label ,Underwriters Lab. if they don`t approve it well your on your own. Our sockets (Sockets all have 3 points of entry)They tell you not to cut off the third prong,or you void the warrenty.Seems a lot of people didn`t want to change their outlates from two to three.So off with its head,Companys went with a two prong double insulated tool to help .Now people were still getting the wrong plug into the wrong hole so they started to mould a bigger head on the cord so you could see the triangle design and hopefully get the right one into the right hole.,that did not work either so now they made the holes smaller on one side and bigger on the other side so you can not make a mistake.
Its all about insurance ,people still are getting killed because they change the safety devices put there to help out.
Do you feel luckey?

Our equivalent to your Underwriters Laboratory here is the Canadian Standards Association and all electrical products sold here have a CSL label on them. In fact many products sold here have a combined /dual label with both. The standards here are a mirror of the one you have for the same reasons. Lee just happens to have a 50 year old machine that hasn't been upgraded. I have a similar but has been upgraded because the original cord was crumbling when I got it. I'm sure that many of your American buddies have old machines with similar electrics on them too, and don't even know, much less feel lucky.

The main point of all this is, that just because a modern tool come with a 2 prong plug, it doesn't make it cheap and unsafe, as one of the early replys stated. So the origional poster's use of North American tools is safe as long as his transformer is correctly setup. Right?

 

[Grinding One]

I have a 1958 AMF DeWalt RAS with 1 hp motor which mounts a 9" blade.
The motor, depending on where I lived, has been switched back & forth between 120 & 220 volts. Under both voltages the same power cord with 2 prong plug is used.

Lee

Your in Canada

I was talking about USA,we have an indepedant inspection company that grants approval of Electrical devices....UL label ,Underwriters Lab. if they don`t approve it well your on your own. Our sockets (Sockets all have 3 points of entry)They tell you not to cut off the third prong,or you void the warrenty.Seems a lot of people didn`t want to change their outlates from two to three.So off with its head,Companys went with a two prong double insulated tool to help .Now people were still getting the wrong plug into the wrong hole so they started to mould a bigger head on the cord so you could see the triangle design and hopefully get the right one into the right hole.,that did not work either so now they made the holes smaller on one side and bigger on the other side so you can not make a mistake.
Its all about insurance ,people still are getting killed because they change the safety devices put there to help out.
Do you feel luckey?

Our equivalent to your Underwriters Laboratory here is the Canadian Standards Association and all electrical products sold here have a CSL label on them. In fact many products sold here have a combined /dual label with both. The standards here are a mirror of the one you have for the same reasons. Lee just happens to have a 50 year old machine that hasn't been upgraded. I have a similar but has been upgraded because the original cord was crumbling when I got it. I'm sure that many of your American buddies have old machines with similar electrics on them too, and don't even know, much less feel lucky.

The main point of all this is, that just because a modern tool come with a 2 prong plug, it doesn't make it cheap and unsafe, as one of the early replys stated. So the origional poster's use of North American tools is safe as long as his transformer is correctly setup. Right?

I will not say if its right because I would have to look at how its wired to be sure..
And yes tools come with 2 prongs,a lot of them,but I prefer 3.
Learned the hard way a while back as to what Grounds are good for.

 

[Lee Brubaker]

I will say it again. England ....50 cycle electrics . North America...60 cycle electrics & the two are not compatible re tools without them being adapted.
The two prong plug is a "no never mind" if the circuit the machine uses has a continuous ground which is easy enough to test for. Further, if your still in doubt install a grounding adaptor at the receptacle being used by the tool.
Beyond this I cannot throw further light on the subject because it has been 34 years since I last wired a house & have forgotten a lot from non-use.

Lee

 

[JohnBrown]

Voltage is voltage, ampherage is ampherage, & the only difference between the two sides of the pond is that on our side the hydro is 60 cycles & on your side it's 50 cycles. Hence when we visit relatives up in Hartlepool I need an adaptor for my electric shaver.
This is why an individual with sharp eyesight can actually see your light bulbs pulse due to the lower cycles.

Lee

So you use a frequency converter for an electric shaver? I would venture to suggest that it would be cheaper to buy a different shaver. Or several different shavers...

 

[mailee]

it also depends on where the current goes and how susceptible you are. Old guys with heart conditions are not in a good state to withstand shocks of any sort.

Aidan

Your not kidding Aiden, I got my power bill last month! :shock: