Alcohol Squads

[Gill]

We're paying how much tax to finance initiatives such as this?

Measures could include introducing specialist alcohol nurses ... offering safe drinking advice in settings such as sexual health clinics.

It's good to see our money's being spent wisely, making sure that people are given glossy anti-alcohol brochures when their principle concern is a dose of HIV.

Oh, and while we're at it, how about the Chief Constable who has accused the drinks industry of "making as much money out of people's miseries as they can". So it's official: drinking alcohol makes you miserable.

Gill

 

[Smudger]

Yes, all true and correct.

Try working with children affected by drug and alcohol abuse - not just their own - and your rather facile cynicism might take a knock.

 

[woodbloke]

My own view on this very complex problem has been the free availability of booze, almost every little corner shop sells hooch of some description and the owners seem quite complacent about passing it on to under age drinkers...at one time drink (SWIMBO's term :roll: ) could only be obtained from pubs, offy's and supermarkets.
I'm also a bit puzzled as to how this 'binge drinking' culture seemed to come about so quickly, I don't remember there being a huge problem 10 or 15 years ago...so what's gone wrong? - Rob

 

[NickWelford]

Role models have a lot to answer for - top class footballers, film and pop stars who are often pictured rolling about much the worse for drink (not to mention the drugs).
Plus there once was a time when being drunk and disorderly, or even drunk in the street was an arrestable offence with a trip to the magistrates court after a night in the cells.

Bring back approved schools and borstals with very strict regimes, I say. The threat of those kept many 'waiverers' on the right side of the law......

 

[Smudger]

I don't think that Borstal ever impinged on 'waverers'.
What affected their behaviour was strong families with social values, self-respect and the company of adults, the general expectations of a society which was coherent and rather traditional.

What we have now are often inadequate parents, very poor socialisation, a society which disrespects young people and causes them to lose respect for themselves, an education system which only sees success in terms of GCSE passes and youths who spend all their time in the company of other youths as damaged and disaffected as themselves, with entertainment patterns which heighten rather than diminish anti-social behaviour.

Also consider one moral or ethical question. Is it better to persuade and educate someone to become a good citizen, or to threaten them until they conform whether they understand why they are doing it or not?

 

[davegw]

Oh, and while we're at it, how about the Chief Constable who has accused the drinks industry of "making as much money out of people's miseries as they can". So it's official: drinking alcohol makes you miserable.

Gill

Sorry Gill - Medical fact - alcohol is a depressant, might make you feel good (actually doesn't but removes inhibitions so you stop caring so much) in the short term, but over a long period the hangover feeling sticks.

Underage drinking has always been an issue (White Lighting in the cricket pavillion at the park when I was a teenager) but was handled socially.

Just a though "Binge drinking" was acceptable when most offenders where men - now that more women (girls) are doing it, it's a problem! Blame the Spice Girls! :shock:

 

[RogerS]

......., I don't remember there being a huge problem 10 or 15 years ago...so what's gone wrong? - Rob

You're right...there wasn't. Now let me see. What happened about 10-11 years ago??

 

[RogerS]

I don't think that Borstal ever impinged on 'waverers'.
What affected their behaviour was strong families with social values, self-respect and the company of adults, the general expectations of a society which was coherent and rather traditional.

What we have now are often inadequate parents, very poor socialisation, a society which disrespects young people and causes them to lose respect for themselves, an education system which only sees success in terms of GCSE passes and youths who spend all their time in the company of other youths as damaged and disaffected as themselves, with entertainment patterns which heighten rather than diminish anti-social behaviour.

Also consider one moral or ethical question. Is it better to persuade and educate someone to become a good citizen, or to threaten them until they conform whether they understand why they are doing it or not?

Well said, Smudger Although I still think that a clip round the ear is part and parcel of the solution.

 

[mailee]

I too agree that it is their role models and heroes who are to blame. It also worries me that many of them promote being gay as being in fashion too! As for the drink problem I don't know how they can afford it anyway? As for the punishment I think it should be an eye for an eye and more corpral punishment rather than the mamby pamby try to understand them mentality. Give them a sharp shock in right and wrong, thats how we learned. :evil:

 

[Digit]

I fail to understand that ANYBODY needs to be told that excess alcohol is bad for you.

Roy.

 

[Rich]

......., I don't remember there being a huge problem 10 or 15 years ago...so what's gone wrong? - Rob

You're right...there wasn't. Now let me see. What happened about 10-11 years ago??

If I remember rightly, labour came into power, now don't get on your high horse anyone, you CANNOT deny that since labour took office and the single parent family fixation has not had an effect on the youngsters in our society, you cant blame this on any other political party!

Rich.

 

[Digit]

And the CofE today accuses the government of favouring Islam over the Christian church.
Now there's another surprise!

Roy.

 

[woody67]

Never mind seedy corner shops and shady off licences - what could be
nicer than strolling around Sainsburys, purchasing a few groceries and 45
cans of lager/cider for £20 !!! :shock: Maybe a knock on effect of
increased drinking is multi-faceted. Two reasons being summer weather
and bl**dy football! Major players in the supermarket industry simply vie
to sell cheaper booze to "families" who may wish to quench their thirsts
whilst watching Euro 08. Probably cheap drink for the Olympics.......then
Christmas.......then Easter.......then.......etc, etc.

Mark

 

[Digit]

This area is a very popular holiday spot and tourists cart alcohol out of our local Tescos each Saturday by the trolley load!
I think many of them probably won't even remember whether they had a good holiday or not, or maybe that is their idea of a good holiday!

Roy.

 

[frugal]

I'm also a bit puzzled as to how this 'binge drinking' culture seemed to come about so quickly, I don't remember there being a huge problem 10 or 15 years ago...so what's gone wrong? - Rob

Have you seen the official designation of bing drinking? Drinking more that 1/7th of your weekly allowance in once day.

Apparently women are binge drinking if they drink more than 2.5 units in a day. A bottle of real ale has 2.6 units. So technically my wife is binge drinking if she ever finishes a bottle...

 

[woodbloke]

frugal wrote:

Have you seen the official designation of bing drinking? Drinking more that 1/7th of your weekly allowance in once day.

Interesting. I thought it meant that people were getting absolutely hammered on a Friday and/or Saturday night to the point of almost being unconscious and then abstaining (almost :wink: :roll: ) until the next weekend, in which case, am I a binge drinker for having a couple of glasses of vino and a beer or two on a Sat night ? 8-[ According to the definition, I probably am
I read a while back that the we will be paying for the current problem thru' the NHS in a very large way in about 20 years for diseased livers...doesn't really bare thinking about - Rob

 

[Gill]

Has anyone ever tried to find the scientific data which establishes 'safe' drinking levels? You'll be looking for a long time.

Apparently, the BMA was asked by politicians some time ago about safe drinking levels and realised they couldn't answer the question. So they guessed.

Gill

 

[Digit]

As far as I can see the matter is irrelevant.
The question from most people's viewpoint isn't drinking, it's drunkensess.
When I was younger I would go out for a drink, but today's teens go out to get drunk.

 

[StevieB]

Has anyone ever tried to find the scientific data which establishes 'safe' drinking levels? You'll be looking for a long time.

Sorry Gill, I am going to have to respond to that one!

It really depends on how you define safety and what your risks are, coupled with the time scale over which you are talking.

For example the obvious safe limit is the drink drive limit. This is the point above which you start to become impaired in your physical reactions to the extent that you are a danger to yourself and other road users. That is one definition of safety.

Another definition of safety might be - damage to health. This is hard to pin down since how do you define health. We know that alcohol actually has a J shaped relationship to cardiovascular risk, in that if you drink a little, this is better for you than drinking nothing, but quickly slides into very damaging if you increase the intake. The bottom of the J is in the region of 30mg per day. Since 1 unit is equivalent to 8mg alcohol this corresponds to approximately 4 units, or 2 pints per day. Before you all rush off for 2 pints however, this relates only to the cardiovascular system, not the liver or the brain. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to draw up a risk profile for all organs combined since what is beneficial for some organs may be bad for others. Even a little alcohol can impare cognitive ability by a measureable amount for example.

Looking at the long term, alcohol is quite calorific - approximatey 230 calories per pint. Thus if you drink 2 pints a day to keep your CV system in good health, you are actually taking in 460 calories, or almost 25% of your daily calorific requirement. Over the long term this will have a big impact on weight and hence disease.

You could also define safe as 'increased risk of an event compared to that event not happening in the absence of alcohol'. This would then include all the extraneous factors such as domestic violence, vandalism or even nebulous effects such as getting the munchies after a pint or two or smoking increase - how often have you heard people say 'I only smoke when I go out for a drink?'.

It is not a lack of science that is the problem, nor a lack of scientific agreement, but rather differences in the phrasing of the question - how damaging is alcohol? As I have stated on here before, if alcohol was 'invented' today it would be designated as a class A drug.

Steve.

 

[Digit]

Looking at the long term, alcohol is quite calorific - approximatey 230 calories per pint.

Eh? Surely that is not the alcohol but the grain/grape/fruit residue or sugar left after brewing.
For example, dark beers, like Porter/Stout have a very large grain/carbohydrate residue content and are very rapid acting body fuels.
The calorific value of pure ethyl alcohol is very low, its value as a fuel is based on the decay producing steam and giving a piston a nice long push.

Roy.