Alcohol Squads

[StevieB]

Sorry, I was using alcohol in a generic sense there to mean an alcoholic drink (figures are for a pint of beer) rather than alcohol in the sense of pure ethanol.

Steve.

 

[Smudger]

"Has anyone ever tried to find the scientific data which establishes 'safe' drinking levels? You'll be looking for a long time."

Your inference seems to be, on the basis of that statement, that it isn't dangerous, because 'no-one' can prove what level of alcohol abuse is dangerous.
If you'll pardon me saying so, that is a somewhat less than intellectually rigorous conclusion.

Alcohol causes harm in anything other than small quantities.

 

[Gill]

"Has anyone ever tried to find the scientific data which establishes 'safe' drinking levels? You'll be looking for a long time."

Your inference seems to be, on the basis of that statement, that it isn't dangerous, because 'no-one' can prove what level of alcohol abuse is dangerous.
If you'll pardon me saying so, that is a somewhat less than intellectually rigorous conclusion.

Alcohol causes harm in anything other than small quantities.

I'm not saying that. What concerns me is that government policy is based on scientific claims which are unsubstantiated. They may be 'good guesses', but the state seems to rely heavily on good guesses in a number of policy areas. Some of these guesses turn out later not to be terribly good at all.

I would like to see rigorously tested science, not political expedience.

Gill

 

[StevieB]

To have rigerously tested science you must first have a defined hypothesis that can be tested. As my post above stated, it is not a lack of data that is the problem, its what question you are actually trying to address with it.

Steve.

 

[Smudger]

The data exists, and seems to suggest that, for a man, 30 units a week is low risk, about half of that for women. That seems to equate in a common-sense way to what many men drink, 15 pints of beer a week, and if that is done 'steadily' it doesn't seem to cause a lot of problems. It may be slightly beneficial.

But that isn't what is concerning us, is it? What we are all up in arms about is antisocial and harmful binge drinking, possibly 20+ units in a session, or heavy regular drinking, 50+ units a week. You don't need a medical degree and a government grant to see that a level of drinking in which that is done on a regular basis is harmful, both to physical and mental health, but also in terms of the danger of violent harm, sexual and other abuse and other factors such as antisocial behaviour.

 

[davegw]

But that isn't what is concerning us, is it? What we are all up in arms about is antisocial and harmful binge drinking, possibly 20+ units in a session, or heavy regular drinking, 50+ units a week. You don't need a medical degree and a government grant to see that a level of drinking in which that is done on a regular basis is harmful, both to physical and mental health, but also in terms of the danger of violent harm, sexual and other abuse and other factors such as antisocial behaviour.

I agree, and if you stop thinking about binge drinking, and concentrated on the anti social behavior that drunkenness can lead to then all the arguments about the "Nanny" state go away. Lets be honest, generally, we want the government to protect us, that's why we are not all out getting p*****d and driving home anymore, why most of us wear seat belts, and why most of us don't do heroin, cocaine or other serious drugs!

Please note I said most - there are bound to be exceptions to any rule.

 

[Losos]

Role models have a lot to answer for - top class footballers, film and pop stars who are often pictured rolling about much the worse for drink (not to mention the drugs).

Yes, couldn't agree more, plus the media themselves who report stories in a way which has hardly any impact.

Also I have some sympathy with the OP in that far too much money is spent on initiatives which don't work. Hard punishment is what is needed and if children are suffering because of parental ignorance and abuse then those parents should be locked up for a very long time and castrated to prevent them bringing more kids into the world.

 

[lurker]

Underage drinking could be stopped overnight with current laws.
Anyone who sells to underage kid has their licence suspended there & then and has to apply for replacement and no sales until they get one.

Ditto Binge drinking, someone walks out of pub or club hammered - the police should go straight in and arrrest the licence holder for selling to drunken person and close the estabilshement pending licence re-issue.

It would only need to happen once in every town or city.

 

[Digit]

Yep! But then someone would probably claim that getting drunk was a human right!

Roy.

 

[Mr T]

I have been watching this discussion with interest, but I feel I must object to this:

Also I have some sympathy with the OP in that far too much money is spent on initiatives which don't work. Hard punishment is what is needed and if children are suffering because of parental ignorance and abuse then those parents should be locked up for a very long time and castrated to prevent them bringing more kids into the world.

Is this person serious or what? If he is, it's idiotic talk like this that lead to the abuses of power and atrocities we saw in the 1940's.

It might make him feel better to say things like this, but I think he would find it rather unpleasant to live in a society the approached social problems in this way

Chris

 

[Rich]

When I was that age and enjoying life, the only places to obtain alcohol from were pubs and off licences, the opening hours were regulated and bobbies were on the beat, pubs don't sell groceries, so why should corner shops sell alcohol?the other thing I'd like to say is at that age young chaps of my age did not have the same amount of disposable income and were looking to save for a deposit on a house, not much likelyhood of that with all the immigrants looking for houses too, supply and demand pushes up the prices so youngsters feel they have no chance and blow their money on booze and drugs, it's a vicious circle now, sorry if I sound downbeat but unless the problem of foreigners is sorted I see no way out of this and no future for our children, are we going to bequeath a dog eat dog society for our kids? the likes of our elders who laid their life on the line must be wondering why they bothered.
regards,
Rich.

 

[Jake]

The english youth drinking too much is johnny foreigners' fault?

You believe in boogeyman, Rich?

 

[Mr T]

At risk of being labelled a wishy washy liberal I must object to the following:

I'd like to say is at that age young chaps of my age did not have the same amount of disposable income and were looking to save for a deposit on a house, not much likelyhood of that with all the immigrants looking for houses too,

it's a vicious circle now, sorry if I sound downbeat but unless the problem of foreigners is sorted I see no way out of this and no future for our children

Not only is this not relavnt to binge drinking, it is also misguided.

This country would not function without the foriegn work force, they harvest our vegetables, build our houses, serve us in restaurants, nurse us and clean our hospitals and look after our elderly in nursing homes. All jobs that many British young people are not prepared to do.

Chris

 

[Rich]

No Jake, that's not what I said, but if our own home grown children see no future ahead of them, what are they to do, the issue of "johnny foreigner" is but one reason of seeing their future eroded by competition in the workplace, this would be ok if the young brits had the wherewithall to go to eastern europe and do the same, but they don't,
anyway it's obvious that you and I will have to agree to disagree, and I have no wish to waste precious time explaining to you each and every time I post the reasoning behind my opinion.
once again,
Goodnight Jake!
Rich.

 

[BradNaylor]

the other thing I'd like to say is at that age young chaps of my age did not have the same amount of disposable income and were looking to save for a deposit on a house, not much likelyhood of that with all the immigrants looking for houses too, supply and demand pushes up the prices

I can't let this rubbish pass without comment.

The extraordinary rise in house prices of the last ten years has not been a function of fundemental supply and demand, but a classic speculative bubble inflated by the easy availability of cheap credit and lax lending by the banks.

Inevitably, it is now all coming crashing down. House prices are likely to return to their levels of 5 years ago, unfortunately bankrupting many of those who stretched themselves to get 'on the ladder'.

Immigrants? I guess you are referring to the many people from eastern Europe who have come here to work and send money back to their families at home. They tend to live in cheap rented accomodation. As our economy slides into recession they are also leaving in droves.

Not for the first time Rich, you are talking complete cr@p!

 

[Smudger]

Rich - in all friendship - listen to what people are saying to you and get over this.

 

[Digit]

Actually Jake Rich's comment has been voiced in, perhaps politer terms, by MPs.
Even the red headed midget has finally admitted to the fact that 'immigration is causing social problems'.
Perhaps not where you live but here in Wales it's us English incomers who caused that self same complaint.

Roy.

 

[Digit]

Well Dan I'll give you another piece of crap, from Government figures this is.
14 percent of the current prison population are immigrants.
They are not, according to government figures 14 percent of the population, therefore immigrants commit more crimes than we do, or do you have an alternative explanation?
If you can't believe it check the figures for yourself.

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Save your breath Roy, it's why we are where we are.
Rich.

 

[Slim]

With all due respect Roy, Rich's comments were relating imigrants to house prices. Nothing at all to do with crime. Lets not turn this into a free for all on our imigrant friends.