Advice: Router table upgrade vs spindle moulder

[Jake]

PS I'd add: for straight-through mouldings, slots, rebates, large or small, the spindle is utterly superior. There's very little you can do with a router which can't be done much better with a spindle.

Let's try a trench, at say 400mm from the edge.

 

[Jake]

Well, interesting views about the router table versus a spindle. Now, I’m a spindle man through and though. I’ve used a router table, and can say categorically I can setup up a spindle faster than a router table. I’m fairly sure that in a ‘shoot out’ with someone used to setting up a router table it would be a very close thing on who was quickest.

Just changing block or changing knives?

 

[Doug B]

I think these arguments always consider a router table as a safer option and therefore to be commended to beginners.

Whilst I agree the spindle moulder used to have a very bad reputation & could have put people off I think beginners & hobbyists opt for the router table for many reasons.
I started with one 30 years ago due to lack of space, there was no way I’d have got a spindle moulder in my first workshop, even my present router table set up is a quarter of the size of my spindle moulder & sits under under my bench when not in use so not taking up valuable floor space.
Also a simple router table can be far cheaper than a spindle, I appreciate you can spend a fortune on the latest lifts etc but it doesn’t have to be that way.
I bought my present lift & plate second hand, used an old router & nvr & spent less than £250
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/post-a-photo-of-the-last-thing-you-made.81798/post-1711050

 

[Jacob]

Let's try a trench, at say 400mm from the edge.

Well yes there are a few things which can't be done with a spindle!
Which is why I've also got two routers. The big heavy Erbauer doesn't get much use at 2.1kw but the little 600w Bosch does.
Or did that is - I'm still fiddling about between workshops - just an overcrowded garage at the mo.

 

[Jake]

I think these arguments always consider a router table as a safer option and therefore to be commended to beginners. I see why i really do but setting a spindle is for me generally safer. The danger is not setting/tightening it up correctly.

I think a lot of that fear is driven by historic reputation forged before modern SM tooling was developed.

Generally my fingers are nowhere near in use on straight stuff. The same isnt true of router tables, you need to get intimate with them. Some instruction/help with either seems prudent.

I don't have a power feed on either the table or SM, but use push sticks in combination with either featherboards (RT) or shaw guides (SM). My fingers go nowhere near spinning tooling on either. I don't think there is much inherent difference safety wise, but a power feeder changes the equation significantly.

And that is only really practical on a decent sized SM. But a decent sized SM will take up half a shed workshop, or in my case be impossible to get downstairs into a cellar workshop. Although I am now curious as to whether that mini Cometic one someone posted about might fit my small SM or indeed the router table.

So I don't think there is an absolutist answer to this - well, there is, in my head with a workshop of infinite size stuffed full of Martin / old English iron - but in the real world there is some horses for courses about it.

 

[deema]

Just changing block or changing knives?

Either, changing the block is very fast, and I tend to change knives without removing the block as I find it easier. I only use pinned blocks rather than serrated so no need to align the cutters. The longest job is taking off and putting back on a false fence if Im using one.

For hobby use I wouldn’t have thought time to change bits or cutters would be a deciding factor on which type to go for. If your employing anyone, a router table would be a complete none starter unless you have a braked spindle to comply with PUWR regs and by the time you’ve got a compliant braked spindle for your router table you’d be cheaper buying a spindle I think that’s why nobody sells (to my knowledge) a router table or lift with a router actually mounted into it. Unless it’s PUWR compliant it’s illegal to sell to anyone, hobby or professional!! I wrote to a few well known retailers a few years back asking how they feel about selling router lifts and tables knowing that they will potentially be used to mount none compliant routers and legally where they stand if an accident happens. A major retailer who recently shut down their stores to go online only told me they’d prefer me not ask those type of questions The others didn’t reply

I find it amazing that retailers are comfortable selling parts to make a a machine they can’t sell legally and a potentially dangerous router table system without huge warning labels on their web sites, instructions, catalogues stating that only braked routers / spindles must be used with it. I’m not sure how they sleep comfortable at night.

 

[Doug B]

Out of interest as I'm in the workshop today I've just timed the stopping time of both of my 1/2" routers both with large cutters in.
My 27 year old DeWalt which is in the router table at present stopped in 9 seconds my Festool rather impressively in under 3 seconds so I'm guessing the sellers of those 2 brands can sleep soundly
I'd be interested in knowing how other brands fair particularly the spindle type routers designed for modern router lifts

 

[Spectric]

Where are you getting your custom cutters Roy ?

The person who told me was @deema

 

[deema]

I usually buy custom cutters from Profile design Tooling: Brigg Taylor.

 

[deema]

Out of interest as I'm in the workshop today I've just timed the stopping time of both of my 1/2" routers both with large cutters in.
My 27 year old DeWalt which is in the router table at present stopped in 9 seconds my Festool rather impressively in under 3 seconds so I'm guessing the sellers of those 2 brands can sleep soundly
I'd be interested in knowing how other brands fair particularly the spindle type routers designed for modern router lifts

Hand held power tools don’t need to comply with PUWR, so all hand held routers are fully compliant. It’s just when you stick one in a table and it becomes manually fed that new rules, I particular PUWR come into effect. So a router table has to comply with all the rules and regulations of a manually fed rotating machine.

Every modern spindle moulder I’ve ‘played’ with has a specified maximum weight of tooling it can take, this is to ensure that the braking can stop it within the 10 second rule.

 

[Jake]

I'd be interested in knowing how other brands fair particularly the spindle type routers designed for modern router lifts

Not one of those but 7.1 secs for the old original Triton TRA001.

Also, 1 minute 5 secs for a cutter change - from isolating through to spinning up the new one (including changing the - reluctant - rings for a bigger cutter) and returning old cutter to storage. Not including setting up a cut properly beyond getting in a vague position, but that's going to be much of a muchness on either. That's a lot quicker than a change of SM knives would be for me, but maybe I'd get a lot quicker with a lot more practice.