Advice for chisels 2nd fix joinery

[fobos8]

Hello there

I'm thinking about buying some new chisels and need some advice from you experts please.

At the moment i'm working on mainly refurb jobs. I have a set a Bahco chisels but I find that they lose their sharp edge too quickly. I'm thinking about just using them for "rough" site work and getting an extra 2 chisels (18 + 25mm) which would just be used for chopping out door furniture recesses. These chisels would be reserved for this work and I want them to always be sharp. I'm been thinking about getting a couple of the Lie Neilson bevel edged ones as they are supposed to keep their edge for ages.

I've got a couple of questions about them though. Does anyone have experience of hitting them with a claw hammer? will they take it? Do you ever get your fingers cut if you hold the side of the blade with your hands?

Thanks in advance, Andrew

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

I have a set of bahco which have now been reserved for 'special' jobs. these mainly involve opening paint tins, or using when I might hit a nail :lol:
My site chisels are an older set of marples, with the amber handles. I bought them second hand off of a joiner whow as packing up. Excellent chisels for site work, they are 15-20 years old and ten times better than the new set I also have.
I would scout out a set of these for site work, and get a duplicate of the 18 & 25 if thats what you use most for door hanging etc.
I do have a set of lie nielsens in the workshop, and I have use them with the chippies favourite estwing on more than one occasion and they have stood up very well, the edge stays sharp for a very long time.

I'm suprised you are still using a hammer and chisel for door hanging, all the chippies round here use routers and jigs

 

[fobos8]

Thanks for the reply MoorToolsPlease

I do use a router for door hanging - but for squaring off the routed corners and for chopping out strike plates for latches/mortices I need decent chisels that stay sharp. The Bahcos loose their sharpness after doing this to one hardwood door!!

Do you ever cut your hands on your LN chisels - from the picture it looks like they have sharp side?

Cheers, Andrew

P.S should I be using a corner chisel for squaring off routed recesses?

 

[wizer]

Don't bother with corner chisels, they are hard if not impossible to sharpen.

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

Me, I just buy the hingers and ironmongery with rounded corners :wink:
If its commercial its not something that will matter, and means you can get more hung in a day a very good thing if you are on price work instead of day rate.
There is a fine land on the lie nielsens, about 1mm or so and i've never cut my hand on them.
There is a couple of companies that do corner chisels designed for working with such jigs, the one I have only cost a few quid, once it gets too blunt I will just buy another before I try to sharpen it.

 

[fobos8]

Most of the furniture i have to fit is chosen by customer that they see in B&Q, Wickes etc and so is square unfortunately. Have seen the round furniture in Norway but have never seen much of it in the shops here - i think only in Hafele catalogue.

Think I might give the Lie Neilsons a try. I guess that if the handles do get knackered after taking a battering I can replace the handles?

 

[wizer]

LN's are very expensive chisels for site work.

 

[ike]

If you are not going to use a mallet, you are limited to plastic or hooped handles. Which rules out many really good quality chisels, which is what you want.

So it boils down to high quality chisels with plastic/rubber handles or hooped handles...hhhm. :? You're not making it easy are you.

I can only vouch for old Marples which are pretty good. Don't know about the modern stuff. I doubt there's much to choose between any of the brands.

However, Sorby 167's might be worth investigating. Again I can't vouch for them, but maybe someone here has them?

Ike

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew

LNs are too expensive for site work - they are really workshop chisels for fine joinery

Try some Ashley ilse chisels as they hold their edge for ages and cost a third of the LNs

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Re: Bahco Do you ever get your fingers cut if you hold the side of the blade with your hands?

Thanks in advance, Andrew

Yes on Bahco's, I didn't even realize I was cutting myself on them either, problem sorted by emery cloth rubbed a couple of times along each edge. No problems with LN's though.

No way would I use a hammer to hit my LN's [-X A wooden mallet yes but not a hammer :shock:

 

[ike]

Tony wrote:

Try some Ashley ilse chisels as they hold their edge for ages and cost a third of the LNs

Lord Nibbo wote:

No way would I use a hammer to hit my LN's A wooden mallet yes but not a hammer

I have the AI's. I suggested Sorby 167 rather than AI as I can't countenance bolloxing the AI's with a hammer. Regardless of the price they are bloody nice chisels too!. A superfine diamond plate in the toolbag is all I need. I can keep my tatty old Footprint chisels plenty sharp enough for a days work on site. A quick 2-min lick over as and when needed. The much-ignored, but simple and quick, convex sharpening :wink:

Ike

 

[Karl]

Andrew

I use a couple of the Japanese "Temple" chisels sold by Axminster for this type of work - a bit beefier than their Oire Nomi chisels.

Cheers

Karl

 

[fobos8]

Hi

Just got back from work. Didn't expect so many replies? many thanks.

The only reason I was considering the LN chisels is that they are R 61 hardened. I have a Veritas block plane which has R 61 steel it it stays sharp for AGES which I really like.

I hadn't considered get something Japanese but don't see why not.

I guess I ought to get something which has hoops at the top of the handle as these seem to be more for hammer hitting.

This basically narrows things down to the Japanese ones sold by Axminster and the Sorby 167s.

Can anyone comment on how long these Chisels hold their sharpness for in comparison to the R61 steel on the LNs?

I really hate having to sharpen every day!!

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

Whilst it isn't the 'best' practice to use Lie nielsen chisels with an estwing, it hasnt done mine any harm. Using the side of the hammer with hits well centred on the handle has had no lasting effects on the chisel.
I've got a few japanese chisels, but find them too brittle for site work.
I've got an AI chisel too that I bought at a show a few years ago, reasonable chisel but the back wasnt very flat and still doesnt have the edge holding of the LN.
If you want the LN, then go for it, just make sure it is pad locked to your tool box when not in your pouch :wink:

 

[ike]

Sorbys are RC 60-61 hardness, but of 01 steel (like AI's), whereas LN's are A2 cryo'd I believe. In theory A2 cryo steel should improve edge retention particularly at low bevel angles e.g. for paring. However, 01 steel requires less effort to sharpen due to lower toughness.

Jap chisels laminated steel with a tough back and superhard edge - harder than Western pattern chisels 0 or A alloys. Downside is you can't lever them. The edge will break. Then it'll need the power grinder.
Your Veritas plane could have either an 01 blade or an A2 blade. Unless you specified 01, it'll most likely be A2. Same harness all but, but tougher than 01 hence better edge retention. However, I can vouch for the AI's (01 - RC60-61) hold a keen edge for a respectable amount of work. Undoubtly LN's would be better. I stand to be proved wrong but I would surmise the Sorbys are equal to the the AI's.

Nothing wrong with using LN's on site. A chisel is a chisel and made to be used. It is nonsense to categorise it as suitable only for 'fine joinery' in the workshop. Although I must say, if I had one I still couldn't bring myself to attack it with a hammer!

cheers,

Ike







Ike

 

[Oryxdesign]

My Apprentise has just bought a set of MHG chisels from Rutlands (on offer) and I think they're pretty good, hooped handles so I guess you could use a hammer if you wish, the backs were quite flat and he seems to have got them to a usable state quickly. They are hardened to RC-61 so will stay sharp, nice box too, I did feel a bit jealous when he showed them to me.
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/1311311

It may be worth you looking these as wellhttp://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/1315306

or thesehttp://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/13111407

 

[fobos8]

thanks for that ike

i think the LN would be a good choice if the handles will stand up to it. I just send them an email to ask them their thoughts on hitting the handle with a steel hammer. Bear in mind i'm just using them for shallow recessing about 4mm max and squaring up round routed recesses.

One thing against using the Japanese chisels for my application is that most furniture recesses are 25.4mm wide and the closest Jap is 24mm which would need two cuts. A 1" chisel would be more efficient.

I'll post the reply

cheers, andrew

 

[ike]

Well the handles are Hornbeam (aka ironwood) so I imagine they'll hold up quite well. If you have access to a lathe you could always re-profile it for a top ring. Then you'll have the perfect solution.

 

[MIGNAL]

Lidl's finest. Pretty decent steel for the money.

 

[chippy1970]

I have had a set of the original ones of these I payed around £50 for a set of 6 I think about 10 - 15 years ago they were imported from USA back then (all the sizes are in imperial)

https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/ ... /STA016970


I don't know what the new ones are like but mine are good. I started using butt chisels because if using chisels all day I find the shorter blade much more comfortable to use, I still have some long bladed black handled Stanley chisels for deep mortises etc. I had a set of marples but took them back didn't like the quality.


I worked on a site with a guy years ago who had 2 Japanese chisels , sorry dont know what ones, but he showed me a catalogue and for a set of them it was around £3000 :shock: :shock: :shock: