Advice drilling 32mm holes in 80mm joists

[joncooper27]

Hi
I have to drill lots of holes in joists 32mm diameter for copper pipes. I will be drilling from underneath as the ceiling is not fitted but the floor is.
How and with what can anyone recommend?
I have about 100 holes to drill

 

[Wilson joinery]

Hi Jon

A 32mm flat wood bit should do the trick. I guess it doesn’t have to be neat (there will be breakout where the bit exits).

Cheers
Pete

 

[Jake]

Max permissible diameter of holes anywhere in span is 25% of depth of joist so this doesn't work.

 

[ChaiLatte]

What size pipes? A 32mm hole suits a 28mm pipe, which is unusual in a domestic situation. A 32mm hole is excessive for a 22mm and 15mm pipe. The smaller the hole, the less material has to be removed, the less effort and time on your part. Buying two different sizes of drill bit over more than 100 holes will have a time and labour benefit that exceeds the tool cost.

Flat wood bits are good because you can cut the shank down if space is limited, but do need to be pressed on to get them to bite. They need relatively high speed to work.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-hex-shank-flat-wood-drill-bit-32mm-x-152mm/422PH

An auger-type bit will pull itself into the hole, so is semi-self-feeding. However, to have a controlled feed, they are better spun a little slower than a flat bit. That means a high torque, low RPM machine.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/armeg-wo...flute-auger-wood-drill-bit-32mm-x-165mm/91676

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/615703-32mmx100mm-short-auger-drill-bit

What is the clear space from face of joist to face of adjacent joist? Something like 400mm - 50mm = 350mm? Your motive power plus drill bit needs to have an overall length smaller than this.

Use a laser or stringline to mark the line of the holes and then a combination square to mark the height of the holes. Having all the holes aligned makes fitting the pipe less stressful.

 

[Jake]

I think you'd be better lowering the ceiling with battens (could combine with a notch of up to 10mm, so 25mm roofing batten could work). A lot simpler to get the pipes up then than feeding them through 100 holes.

 

[ChaiLatte]

Max permissible diameter of holes anywhere in span is 25% of depth of joist so this doesn't work.

Is it possible that the 80mm is the width of the joist?

Given he says it has a floor above and ceiling below, an 80mm deep joist does not seem practicable.

 

[Jake]

Is it possible that the 80mm is the width of the joist?

Given he says it has a floor above and ceiling below, an 80mm deep joist does not seem practicable.

Oh I suppose so, hadn't considered that.

 

[joncooper27]

The depth of the joists are 250mm x 80mm thick sorry did not make it clear. The joists are @ 400 ctrs
I have plenty of tolerance with hole diameter.
I was just concerned threading the pipe through if the tolerance was to tight

 

[Jake]

The wood beaver type will make for much quicker going compared to a flat bit. I think they are about 150mm so that doesn't leave a great deal for the drill (even allowing for some in the chuck) unless it's in a right angle chuck or drill. That said, if you can feed the pipe in later, you can also feed a longer auger in once you've done a few holes (as long as your drill has the power to cope with the extra friction).

 

[Spectric]

How are you going to feed copper pipe through the holes when the joist are at 400mm spacing and there is a floor above ?

@Jake 's idea is much better .

 

[Bingy man]

How are you going to feed copper pipe through the holes when the joist are at 400mm spacing and there is a floor above ?

@Jake 's idea is much better .

It’s physically impossible to feed any diameter pipe though 400,600 etc unless the pipe is flexible, ideally it should have in above and notched into the joists be for the flooring was laid .

 

[Jake]

With 250mm depth, the max permissible notch would be 31.25mm (as long as there aren't already notches on the top surface) so you wouldn't need to batten.

As for feeding pipe in, rather depends on the set up as you might be able to do so from one or other end of the run.

 

[Sideways]

I think we'd all still like to know the planned pipe size.
This sounds to me like a job where plastic pipe is justified. Bore your holes on the centre line of the joists and use a stubby armeg wood beaver or equivalent. Knock up a improvised jig to get your holes properly lined up and perpendicular to the joist and you'll thank yourself for it when it comes to threading the pipe.
I'd bore just one size up from the pipe size personally. I hate to see structural timber butchered and weakened just because someone was in too much of a hurry to do the job properly.

For that number of holes, it may be worth buying a right angle drill or a small hole hawg, but the wood beaver bits have a hex shank and are impact rated so chucking them in an impact driver can be a lifesaver. Impacts are one of the shortest power tools in the box front to back and may fit in a 320mm (400mm centres less (2x80mm/2)) gap with the wood beaver fitted.

 

[Bingy man]

The depth of the joists are 250mm x 80mm thick sorry did not make it clear. The joists are @ 400 ctrs
I have plenty of tolerance with hole diameter.
I was just concerned threading the pipe through if the tolerance was to tight

If it’s not possible to install it from upstairs below the floor you may have to reconsider your approach. Is this a gas pipe ( 28 mm) + clearance ~ 32 mm as the next size up would be 35mm ? It’s not that clear what your intending to do or the route your taking as above feeding any solid pipe of 3 mtrs is almost impossible unless you are knocking out bricks from external / internal walls and feeding the pipework in from outside. There is a maximum size hole you can drill depending on your joist dimensions and their span but I don’t have that info to hand . Notched joists the last time I checked were 1. 6th of the depth of the joist.

 

[Jake]

1/8 for notches (to max of 35mm), 1/4 for holes (to max of 65mm). Notches nearer ends, holes nearer middle.

https://www.labc.co.uk/news/how-get-it-right-notches-holes-solid-timber-joists

 

[J-G]

With 250mm depth, the max permissible notch would be 31.25mm (as long as there aren't already notches on the top surface) so you wouldn't need to batten.

As for feeding pipe in, rather depends on the set up as you might be able to do so from one or other end of the run.

At post Nº3 you stated that the maximum hole size was 25% of the Joist depth. 25% of 250mm is 62.5mm not 31.25mm

 

[joncooper27]

Thanks for everyone’s comments really appreciated.
My plan is to thread the pipe through the stair opening
The pipes will be 22mm copper, I don’t use plastic anymore after a pipe leak after a mouse eat through a pipe. I also have an M Press tool to crimp the pipes makes a great job
I guess I could make the holes smaller if I make a jig I was just concerned if the holes were not bang on or totally straight with threading copper through would make them tight.
I have seen an erbauer 90chuck attachment on Screwfix I was going to give that a try.
I fancied the 90 degree chuck for my fein drill but it’s £100

 

[Doug B]

The easiest way I found of drilling holes when space was tight was to snap a chalk line on the bottom of the joists in line with the run of the pipe, use a square to transfer the line up the joist & Mark the desired height, then use a flat bit in an impact driver to drill the holes.
A word of caution this is a very quick aggressive way to drill the holes so a soon as you see the point of the bit coming through the joist stop & finish drilling the hole from the opposite direction otherwise you will get a lot of break out.

 

[ChaiLatte]

The pipes will be 22mm copper...

A 32mm hole is excessive for this size pipe. 25mm, accurately located, is more than adequate.

Spend the time and mental effort getting the holes in the right place, not the physical brute force on punching a large hole though many joists.

Work out the cross-sectional area of 25mm dia. and the same for 32mm dia. That is the extra-over percentage of material you need to remove. Why do an unnecessary job for a 64% cut in wages?