Advantage of longer screwdrivers, more leverage or...?

[monkeybiter]

There are some posts in this thread that have gone missing.

I immediately looked to see if Jacob's post was still there, but it is! And very sensible and non-controversial too.

What's missing? The page count is the same as just before I posted, surely can't be much? Was it significant?

 

[custard]

I use flat screwdrivers because I use flat screws!

There are some modern furniture designs where a Torx head or something similar looks appropriate, but in most fine furniture anything other than a slotted head brass screw just looks wrong.

 

[John Brown]

There are some posts in this thread that have gone missing.

It's probably all part of an anti-long-screwdriver conspiracy.
Alternatively, you could be forgetting that this thread was split off from another one.

 

[bugbear]

I find the easiest way to deliver max manual torque [for me anyway] and avoid chewing the head is to push against the end of the screwdriver with one hand, [down it's axis] while gripping the handle of the driver at right angles 'from the side' with the other, separating the 'don't-cam-out' force from the 'turn-you-bugger' force.

If only there were a tool that embodied this excellent idea...

bad-but-good-brace-t99495.html

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I find the easiest way to deliver max manual torque [for me anyway] and avoid chewing the head is to push against the end of the screwdriver with one hand, [down it's axis] while gripping the handle of the driver at right angles 'from the side' with the other, separating the 'don't-cam-out' force from the 'turn-you-bugger' force.

If only there were a tool that embodied this excellent idea...

bad-but-good-brace-t99495.html

BugBear

Indeed!

Or even one of these - I've still not seen another, over seven years later.

 

[monkeybiter]

If only there were a tool that embodied this excellent idea...

bad-but-good-brace-t99495.html

BugBear

You'd definitely be able to deliver more torque, but I think you'd also have more chance of pushing out of alignment.... wel, I would, but in retrospect that's probably a case of acquiring a knack.
Hmmm may have to start and look out for one as a 'stuck screw wagger'.

AndyT's tool looks like a complicated toffee hammer.

Re. screw head types, I was trying to be mischievous/provocative but I do think the apparent consensus on the aesthetic superiority of slotted screws strange, in a jewellery box for instance I think I would prefer the appearance of an Allen head or even Pozi/Phillips. I don't think I'd like the look of a square drive.

 

[bugbear]

If only there were a tool that embodied this excellent idea...

bad-but-good-brace-t99495.html

BugBear

You'd definitely be able to deliver more torque, but I think you'd also have more chance of pushing out of alignment.... wel, I would, but in retrospect that's probably a case of acquiring a knack.

As you said, one hand is entirely dedicated to pushing into the screw (and maintaining alignment...) the other provides nothin' but torque.

In practise, with a stiff screw, I find it's normally the pushing (anti cam out) force which is the highest; the leverage/torque provided by the sweep of the brace is enormous compared to the screwdriver, which is a why I use a small brace.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It's just occurred to me that cranked screwdrivers are available. I think they're mainly intended as a way to turn screws in hard-to-reach places, but their nature does allow more turning force on the screw. From experience, they're actually quite hard to use; keeping the business end in proper alignment with the screwhead is difficult.

I'm in whole-hearted agreement with Bugbear on the use of screwdriver bits in braces, though. For removing larger, well-stuck screws, there's nothing better, especially as the brace allows you to keep the bit in good alignment with the screw, and keep a good axial force on to keep the bit engaged in the screwhead. I've found that with bigger screws - Number 12s and above - you can use a 10" sweep brace safely enough; with smaller screws some discretion with turning force is wise!

 

[DoctorWibble]

Going back to the long screwdrivers I think the key is the spring allowed by the longer shaft. Spring allows you to build up the pressure without breaking your grip on the handle or losing your alignment with the slot. Total torque or power is unchanged (of course) but it is more controllable and so is directed into turning the screw rather than burring the head or heating your hand and the handle with friction.
The length as has already been suggested also minimises tipping at the tip but this is possibly a minor benefit. I have a set of bahco jewellers screwdrivers made out of particularly spinrgy alloy. They're brilliantly controllable. You just wind them uip a bit and the screw loosens as if by magic with no camming or sudden release to kick the screwdriver out the head.
I wonder whether the waisting on these long screwdrivers is done to modify this effect in some useful way?

 

[woodpig]

I don't think I'd like the look of a square drive.

It's a personal thing but I think they look far nicer than Pozidrive.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

If you're a Canuck, everything else is an abomination , truly either the work of the devil or yanks.

 

[Jacob]

Going back to the long screwdrivers I think the key is the spring allowed by the longer shaft. Spring allows you to build up the pressure without breaking your grip on the handle or losing your alignment with the slot. Total torque or power is unchanged (of course) but it is more controllable and so is directed into turning the screw rather than burring the head or heating your hand and the handle with friction.
The length as has already been suggested also minimises tipping at the tip but this is possibly a minor benefit. I have a set of bahco jewellers screwdrivers made out of particularly spinrgy alloy. They're brilliantly controllable. You just wind them uip a bit and the screw loosens as if by magic with no camming or sudden release to kick the screwdriver out the head.
I wonder whether the waisting on these long screwdrivers is done to modify this effect in some useful way?

Interesting. OK I'd go with that idea. Presumably a flat bar be more twisty than a round one (a.o.t.b.e.)?

 

[monkeybiter]

I don't think I'd like the look of a square drive.

It's a personal thing but I think they look far nicer than Pozidrive.

OK, That's a good example, I can feel my mind opening.

 

[Tortion-Stephen]

Going back to the long screwdrivers I think the key is the spring allowed by the longer shaft. Spring allows you to build up the pressure without breaking your grip on the handle or losing your alignment with the slot. Total torque or power is unchanged (of course) but it is more controllable and so is directed into turning the screw rather than burring the head or heating your hand and the handle with friction.
The length as has already been suggested also minimises tipping at the tip but this is possibly a minor benefit. I have a set of bahco jewellers screwdrivers made out of particularly spinrgy alloy. They're brilliantly controllable. You just wind them uip a bit and the screw loosens as if by magic with no camming or sudden release to kick the screwdriver out the head.
I wonder whether the waisting on these long screwdrivers is done to modify this effect in some useful way?

Thanks DoctorWibble, you put it a heck of a lot better than I did. You can indeed feel a degree of 'pre-load' (potential energy in my nerdspeak) and they definitely feel more progressive and controllable.

Cheers,

Stephen

 

[DoctorWibble]

Turns out the small springy screwdrivers I mentioned were actually made by Wiha not Bahco. The Pico line. Looking at them a bit more closely its possible the spring or whip might come from a slightly elastic handle material rather than the alloy chosen for the blade.
As makers of old only had the option of wood for the handle then they'd need to find all the properties they need from the blade. Perhaps this rather than reach is the reason for the variety of long lengths.
Maybe too some were intended to allow two man operation? One "steering" and the other adding some turning force with a pair of mole grips or pliers. If so the length would've made more room for them to work. Mind you if that was the case the makers might've helped by providing a hole for a tommy bar or something so perhaps not.

 

[Green]

I always thought that the longer length allowed the shaft to twist and act like a torque converter.